Noble Park - 2 Developments

Discussion in 'Development' started by Redwood, 16th Mar, 2016.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    691
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi there,

    As you know, I am born n'bred in Noble Park. Those who know me will see that in the way I act and speak.

    As a result, we have been developing there for many years.

    During this time the place has transformed significantly, due to immigration and market dynamics.

    You can now see apartments in Noble Park (who would have thought?) also a hell of a lot of development, right up heatherton rd, to corrigan rd and now in the growth zone.

    We currently have two developments and finally some good news. I would have mentioned that the council has been messing us around for the first time ever. We used to secure a site - demolish at settlement and have a permit and ready to dig asap. These days a little different.

    The council has become conservative (although a growth zone) - and flat out rejected one of our proposals. Today we have both developments progressing.

    Development 1: 6 TH (2br) within 300m to Noble Park Station. Currently close to permit.
    Development 2: 4 TH (3br) within 800m to Noble Park Station. Permit issued.

    Over the course of the next 12-18 months I will provide updates on these developments.

    Traditionally, we have sold all developments off the plan and will be the same in this case.

    The difference is that we are the developer and builder - so builder margins don't matter, which means a great profit margin for us.

    Generally, design is important so the first TH is the most valuable - single entry. Pricing will take place soon.

    Noble Park has been an awesome place to invest which provides capital growth (TH) a low vacancy rate and high yields (2br TH have been producing 5%)- 2-3 of these properties are sold to our own SMSFs which is great, and the others are marketed.

    I will provide updates but not the actual address (I provided an address for a previous address).

    Adios - for now

    Cheers Ivan
     
    MrFox, dan_89, Perthguy and 10 others like this.
  2. LMD

    LMD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    65
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I can't tell you're from noble park from the way you speak on the forum! :D
     
    dan_89 likes this.
  3. bbmick

    bbmick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    122
    Location:
    WesternPort Bay
    I lived in Noble Park for about 8 years and my wife & parents were born/bred/lived in NP back to the 1920's when they had many acres between Noble St & Athol Rd, so I know it well.
    Certainly always been a lot of change - even since we left a decade back there's been much development in the main street, my son's primary school pulled down etc.

    It continues to increase unit stock, even though I always thought there was too many.
    Not sure if this is for the good, but of course progress will roll on. I've heard of stories from the in-laws of open pasture, dirt roads, and even a time before electricity in Noble Park, so I'm interested in following your story & am always keeping an eye on what goes on there ;)

    It's interesting you mention the council issue.

    When the wife's parents passed away (after living in same house since 1952), the family sold the house & adjoining block in Noble St to a developer who was of course going to build units. It's been several years now and not a change. We've been wondering if it has been council problems or finance issues - so perhaps it's the council that's been the problem?

    Let your building begin - I'll be watching with interest :)
     
  4. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    796
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Congratulations on getting the approval.

    I'll pick your (other member's) brains on the zoning aspect of development.

    Residential Growth Zone mentions Residential Growth Zones (RGZ), but the maps Planning Maps Online only show RGZ1 RGZ2 etc. So the questions are:
    • How do you find out the actual planning requirements (heights, density, minimum lot size etc) as the zoning is still different at state and council level.
    • What is the density (RGZ, GRZ, MUZ) for the councils (wyndham, hobsons bay, maribyrnong etc) which have not provided detailed zone maps or even rezoned their councils (everything is by default General Residential Zone - GRZ) ? Where do you get this information from especially when the councils are reluctant to provide this information ?
    • Have you ever rezoned some of the blocks that you have developed ? If yes what is the procedure ?
     
    MTR likes this.
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    691
    Location:
    Melbourne
    LMD - thanks for the good words....

    BBmick - no oversupply - we have sold all stock without issue, big OO and investor market in Noble Park, the Indian community as well as Sri Lankan are big investors in the area and are a fan of a TH less than 30 km to the CBD with public transport at your door and excellent yield.

    Re the developer - not sure why they didn't build. There is another delevloper (a Sri Lankan place) who buy most of the stock off market, they may be sitting on it for whatever reason, never know maybe Daniel Andrews has some train tracks planned for the site :)

    Some have asked about Springvale, very similar to Noble Park - there is a stigma, remember growing up - no one will go there - big Viet community dominated by drugs and crime, now, its a huge area of transformation - key word 'transformation' - 'revitalisation' - same word I am banging on about with Footscray and Braybrook/ Sunshine.

    You can secure a site at the right price and with the right knowledge, you can make a killa profit. I am open and honest, we have had council issues here, for the first time in years. Securing the site is key and most of this occurs off market......secret to success.

    re Zoning - TP laws are quite wide ranging, an objection can be due to many factors - from a visior space to size of living areas - each way you need a good draghtsman to get things done. Like I have said, we have had 2 doing ours for sometime and for some reason we failed recently (to a extent) - the bloke got a kick in the arse.

    Who is the buyer market in NP:
    1. Owner occupiers - diverse community - can be influenced by proximity to the mosque
    2. Investors - Indians and Sri Lankas are dominant in the area

    Who is the renter:

    1. Yes there is government assistance and yes its a multi-cultural society, however, me as a owner and landlord can choose my tenant. I learnt early on with Afghan tenants not to choose them? why they were government funded and though the floorboards in the lounge room was a great place to start a fireplace. never again!

    So my tenants now are young professionals, many are same sex couples as well as single professionals or young couples. Vacancy rates are low and as we are the developer, we can have inspections pre settlements so tenants move in day 1, with LT tenants. Yields are around 5% for 2br and 4.8% for 3br. I have 2 townhouses in my SMSF in Noble Park. You can buy your own stock in a SMSF - I can show you how! Believe it or not, my ol'man done this over 15 years ago - what a legend!

    Alright - next week we will get some momentum going as both sites are demolished and we will update accordingly.

    Remember - nothing is impossible and everything is possible.

    Cheers Ivan
     
    Trung Truong, Chris_R, MTR and 3 others like this.
  6. eyespy1

    eyespy1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    156
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thanks for your insightful post redwood.....given your experience in investing in the one suburb for a long time, do you like to buy/ develop in the rising part of the cycle or can you still make money when the market is flat or dropping ?
     
  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,784
    Location:
    My World
    Ivan

    Thanks for sharing you have had great success in this area, and I believe prices have soared

    was chatting to my builder yesterday, he said that some of his clients are having issues getting plans and permits approved. Areas like Thomastown etc were easier because the locals are not familiar with planning guidelines and take no interest in this, perhaps due the fact that English is not their first language.

    I have heard this a few times now.

    MTR:)
     
  8. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,286
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Very true of the Thomastown area @MTR as I think 70% of the population speak a language other than english
     
    MTR likes this.
  9. Dkb1963

    Dkb1963 New Member

    Joined:
    20th Feb, 2016
    Posts:
    1
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi Ivan
    What price are you buying the land for per townhouse site? I cant quiet get numbers to work in Noble Park but Springvale seems better with a higher townhouse sales price. I used to live in both suburbs myself. I have two owners who have big blocks side by side in Springvale. 1700sqm all up. Do you think this would be better as a townhouse site or apartments
     
    Eleven likes this.
  10. lee_p

    lee_p New Member

    Joined:
    7th May, 2016
    Posts:
    2
    Location:
    melbourne
    Springvale is booming, especial with the Growth Zone but please do not touch apartments unless you're right next to the shopping, there are few apartment projects have been on the market for couple years and still selling.

     
    MTR likes this.
  11. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,784
    Location:
    My World

    lee
    I have heard Springvale is going gang busters.
    Melb is still a very good market, though deve sites that stack up are becoming scarce

    MTR
     
  12. Lone_Wolf

    Lone_Wolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    120
    Location:
    King's Lading
    2 sites on the go at noble park, awesome Ivan.

    Are you able to share land size of each site?
     
  13. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Sep, 2015
    Posts:
    3,038
    Location:
    melbourne
    This are all readily available online. it's all in the department of planning schemes websites. Once it is gazetted, it is updated there (so it is the source of truth)

    Planning Schemes - Planning Schemes Online

    Go to each of the council individual scheme pages and then you can see the maps and areas which zones there are either RGZ, GRZ and if there are overlays (heritage, development contributions etc). Most of the codes are based on the ResCodes

    For RGZ the councils i have looked allow 13.5 meters which are basically four storeys. It can be apartments or either 4 storey TH. Minimum lot size will be determined on the council level as to what is the minimum lot for subdivision etc. This will be listed in the schedules of the zones if it is RGZ1,2 or 3.
     
    Skilled_Migrant likes this.
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    691
    Location:
    Melbourne
    LW - thx one is 810 in the growth zone, this one has 6 TH all with 2br. The other is 1006sqm with 3brd TH

    Cheers Ivan
     
  15. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Sep, 2015
    Posts:
    3,038
    Location:
    melbourne
    got a friend with an apartment project in hawthorn east and he still only 50% sold after a while.
    Why not apartment projects in growth zone with permits and onsell without developing?
     
  16. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    691
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hi guys

    Been a while.

    Bit of an update.

    We had a major stumble with one of the two.

    One is now at Truss stage. The second one, went to VCAT and had our hearing yesterday and we won!!! what a pack of ******* the city of greater dandenong are.

    Quick brief:

    We are in a residential growth zone 150m from noble park station. As a result we apply and design 6 TH. Across the road there are 7 TH and either side there are six. So 3 projects immediately opposite with 6 or more in a resi growth zone immediately across from ours.

    Great design and bang they reject it and a refusal issued. 5 grounds. We go to VCAT and lately VCAT applied in favor of the council - as a result we took a conservative route as one of our friends has lost a VCAT decision - we reduce from 6 to 5 TG. Bang - WE WIN.

    These idiots at the council must have spent 10 days preparing their brief, all irrelevant and a indication of why it takes so long for developers to get permits....the bloody council is spending all their time rejecting plans and preparing for VCAT decisions. I can say their approach is illogical and I am a commonsense guy, there is no commonsense in their approach. I did pay for a car park demand assessment it was not required.

    In the end we won. So we proceed. Should be digging in 8 weeks.

    Due to the council issue we bought another site with plans and permits and that is off the ground already - we don't mess around. They will be complete in 6 months as is the other current development.

    Its no wander there is such a premium for plans and permits these days with these idiots taking so long to block development when they actually designate areas for growth. Stuff em.

    In the VCAT issue we lose a TH but we go from 6 to 5 with a 3br unit included. We still make money, but time is money. So frustrating.

    For those fighting the city of greater dandenong - I am happy to assist you.

    Cheers Ivan
     
    Trung Truong and MrFox like this.
  17. Hodgo

    Hodgo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    218
    Location:
    Baldivis, WA
    Congrats mate, council approval can be a right pain in the arse. Power to the people :)
     
  18. Ghoti

    Ghoti Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Jun, 2016
    Posts:
    314
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hey Ivan...another Noble Park lad here whose parents bought in 1952 as fist home buyers.

    Sold the family home, double block highway frontage, just over a year ago. I suspect the purchaser was a developer but no movement on site as yet.

    Cheers,
    Scott
     
  19. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    691
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Is it on corrigan
     
  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,784
    Location:
    My World

    So Ivan how long did it take to get this one over the line

    Congrats BTW:)
     

Buy Property Interstate WITHOUT Dropping $15k On Buyers Agents Each Time! Helping People Achieve PASSIVE INCOME Using Our Unique Data-Driven System, So You Can Confidently Buy Top 5% Growth & Cashflow Property, Anywhere In Australia