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Noble Park - 2 Developments

Discussion in 'Development' started by Redwood, 16th Mar, 2016.

  1. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

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    Hi there,

    As you know, I am born n'bred in Noble Park. Those who know me will see that in the way I act and speak.

    As a result, we have been developing there for many years.

    During this time the place has transformed significantly, due to immigration and market dynamics.

    You can now see apartments in Noble Park (who would have thought?) also a hell of a lot of development, right up heatherton rd, to corrigan rd and now in the growth zone.

    We currently have two developments and finally some good news. I would have mentioned that the council has been messing us around for the first time ever. We used to secure a site - demolish at settlement and have a permit and ready to dig asap. These days a little different.

    The council has become conservative (although a growth zone) - and flat out rejected one of our proposals. Today we have both developments progressing.

    Development 1: 6 TH (2br) within 300m to Noble Park Station. Currently close to permit.
    Development 2: 4 TH (3br) within 800m to Noble Park Station. Permit issued.

    Over the course of the next 12-18 months I will provide updates on these developments.

    Traditionally, we have sold all developments off the plan and will be the same in this case.

    The difference is that we are the developer and builder - so builder margins don't matter, which means a great profit margin for us.

    Generally, design is important so the first TH is the most valuable - single entry. Pricing will take place soon.

    Noble Park has been an awesome place to invest which provides capital growth (TH) a low vacancy rate and high yields (2br TH have been producing 5%)- 2-3 of these properties are sold to our own SMSFs which is great, and the others are marketed.

    I will provide updates but not the actual address (I provided an address for a previous address).

    Adios - for now

    Cheers Ivan
     
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  2. LMD

    LMD Well-Known Member

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    I can't tell you're from noble park from the way you speak on the forum! :D
     
  3. bbmick

    bbmick Well-Known Member

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    I lived in Noble Park for about 8 years and my wife & parents were born/bred/lived in NP back to the 1920's when they had many acres between Noble St & Athol Rd, so I know it well.
    Certainly always been a lot of change - even since we left a decade back there's been much development in the main street, my son's primary school pulled down etc.

    It continues to increase unit stock, even though I always thought there was too many.
    Not sure if this is for the good, but of course progress will roll on. I've heard of stories from the in-laws of open pasture, dirt roads, and even a time before electricity in Noble Park, so I'm interested in following your story & am always keeping an eye on what goes on there ;)

    It's interesting you mention the council issue.

    When the wife's parents passed away (after living in same house since 1952), the family sold the house & adjoining block in Noble St to a developer who was of course going to build units. It's been several years now and not a change. We've been wondering if it has been council problems or finance issues - so perhaps it's the council that's been the problem?

    Let your building begin - I'll be watching with interest :)
     
  4. Skilled_Migrant

    Skilled_Migrant Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on getting the approval.

    I'll pick your (other member's) brains on the zoning aspect of development.

    Residential Growth Zone mentions Residential Growth Zones (RGZ), but the maps Planning Maps Online only show RGZ1 RGZ2 etc. So the questions are:
    • How do you find out the actual planning requirements (heights, density, minimum lot size etc) as the zoning is still different at state and council level.
    • What is the density (RGZ, GRZ, MUZ) for the councils (wyndham, hobsons bay, maribyrnong etc) which have not provided detailed zone maps or even rezoned their councils (everything is by default General Residential Zone - GRZ) ? Where do you get this information from especially when the councils are reluctant to provide this information ?
    • Have you ever rezoned some of the blocks that you have developed ? If yes what is the procedure ?
     
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  5. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

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    LMD - thanks for the good words....

    BBmick - no oversupply - we have sold all stock without issue, big OO and investor market in Noble Park, the Indian community as well as Sri Lankan are big investors in the area and are a fan of a TH less than 30 km to the CBD with public transport at your door and excellent yield.

    Re the developer - not sure why they didn't build. There is another delevloper (a Sri Lankan place) who buy most of the stock off market, they may be sitting on it for whatever reason, never know maybe Daniel Andrews has some train tracks planned for the site :)

    Some have asked about Springvale, very similar to Noble Park - there is a stigma, remember growing up - no one will go there - big Viet community dominated by drugs and crime, now, its a huge area of transformation - key word 'transformation' - 'revitalisation' - same word I am banging on about with Footscray and Braybrook/ Sunshine.

    You can secure a site at the right price and with the right knowledge, you can make a killa profit. I am open and honest, we have had council issues here, for the first time in years. Securing the site is key and most of this occurs off market......secret to success.

    re Zoning - TP laws are quite wide ranging, an objection can be due to many factors - from a visior space to size of living areas - each way you need a good draghtsman to get things done. Like I have said, we have had 2 doing ours for sometime and for some reason we failed recently (to a extent) - the bloke got a kick in the arse.

    Who is the buyer market in NP:
    1. Owner occupiers - diverse community - can be influenced by proximity to the mosque
    2. Investors - Indians and Sri Lankas are dominant in the area

    Who is the renter:

    1. Yes there is government assistance and yes its a multi-cultural society, however, me as a owner and landlord can choose my tenant. I learnt early on with Afghan tenants not to choose them? why they were government funded and though the floorboards in the lounge room was a great place to start a fireplace. never again!

    So my tenants now are young professionals, many are same sex couples as well as single professionals or young couples. Vacancy rates are low and as we are the developer, we can have inspections pre settlements so tenants move in day 1, with LT tenants. Yields are around 5% for 2br and 4.8% for 3br. I have 2 townhouses in my SMSF in Noble Park. You can buy your own stock in a SMSF - I can show you how! Believe it or not, my ol'man done this over 15 years ago - what a legend!

    Alright - next week we will get some momentum going as both sites are demolished and we will update accordingly.

    Remember - nothing is impossible and everything is possible.

    Cheers Ivan
     
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  6. eyespy1

    eyespy1 Member

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    Sydney
    Thanks for your insightful post redwood.....given your experience in investing in the one suburb for a long time, do you like to buy/ develop in the rising part of the cycle or can you still make money when the market is flat or dropping ?
     
  7. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Ivan

    Thanks for sharing you have had great success in this area, and I believe prices have soared

    was chatting to my builder yesterday, he said that some of his clients are having issues getting plans and permits approved. Areas like Thomastown etc were easier because the locals are not familiar with planning guidelines and take no interest in this, perhaps due the fact that English is not their first language.

    I have heard this a few times now.

    MTR:)
     
  8. Coota9

    Coota9 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Very true of the Thomastown area @MTR as I think 70% of the population speak a language other than english
     
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  9. Dkb1963

    Dkb1963 New Member

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    Hi Ivan
    What price are you buying the land for per townhouse site? I cant quiet get numbers to work in Noble Park but Springvale seems better with a higher townhouse sales price. I used to live in both suburbs myself. I have two owners who have big blocks side by side in Springvale. 1700sqm all up. Do you think this would be better as a townhouse site or apartments
     
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  10. lee_p

    lee_p New Member

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    Springvale is booming, especial with the Growth Zone but please do not touch apartments unless you're right next to the shopping, there are few apartment projects have been on the market for couple years and still selling.

     
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  11. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    lee
    I have heard Springvale is going gang busters.
    Melb is still a very good market, though deve sites that stack up are becoming scarce

    MTR
     
  12. Lone_Wolf

    Lone_Wolf Active Member

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    2 sites on the go at noble park, awesome Ivan.

    Are you able to share land size of each site?
     
  13. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    This are all readily available online. it's all in the department of planning schemes websites. Once it is gazetted, it is updated there (so it is the source of truth)

    Planning Schemes - Planning Schemes Online

    Go to each of the council individual scheme pages and then you can see the maps and areas which zones there are either RGZ, GRZ and if there are overlays (heritage, development contributions etc). Most of the codes are based on the ResCodes

    For RGZ the councils i have looked allow 13.5 meters which are basically four storeys. It can be apartments or either 4 storey TH. Minimum lot size will be determined on the council level as to what is the minimum lot for subdivision etc. This will be listed in the schedules of the zones if it is RGZ1,2 or 3.
     
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  14. Redwood

    Redwood Well-Known Member

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    LW - thx one is 810 in the growth zone, this one has 6 TH all with 2br. The other is 1006sqm with 3brd TH

    Cheers Ivan
     
  15. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    got a friend with an apartment project in hawthorn east and he still only 50% sold after a while.
    Why not apartment projects in growth zone with permits and onsell without developing?