New IP cleaning

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Jamesaurus, 13th Dec, 2018.

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  1. Jamesaurus

    Jamesaurus Well-Known Member

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    Purchased a new IP in SEQ and when I inspected 2 weeks ago the place looked great inside and IMO acceptable to lease out.

    PM has since had a few open homes and asked for the following cleaning costs:
    $100 carpet steam clean + $220 clean cupboards and kitchen

    Am I just being a tightA or is it reasonable to think that if the property was clean enough to sell it is clean enough to lease?
    Is it common for PM's to recommend these cleaning services as standard?
    Do they get kickbacks?
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Is the carpet stained, soiled or in need of revitalisation?

    What's in the cupboards - oily/dirty marks?
     
  3. Jamesaurus

    Jamesaurus Well-Known Member

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    None of the above as far as I noticed!
     
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Ask the agent why? Possibly their standard requirement but do they expect the tenant to do the same at the end of lease?
     
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  5. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

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    It's common if the Property Manager thinks the place is dirty and would affect their ability to find suitable tenants.
    In my experience as a previous renter, the place can look absolutely clean but 99% of the time the PM or owner still wants a bond clean to be completed because even though a place looks clean, it can still be dirty, everyone has different standards I guess.
    'Kickback' implies an illegal activity, how much do you think a 'kickback' on $320 would seriously be?
    If you're worried about it, ask if you can get your own quote and use a cleaner of your own choice.
     
  6. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    I think they get kickbacks. This happened with our IP. We were moving out and cleaned up the whole house before leaving. I asked her to have one bedroom cleaned (really just vacuuming the floor) as we we had all our boxes etc in there and didn't have the opportunity to do it before we had to leave. I guess I was naive in not asking for a quote but we got charged I think $200 or $300 for a clean. That was the first of many problems lol
     
  7. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    Kickback means they get a cut out of the cost. Say $100 per clean can be $1000 if they request it from 10 owners. That's money they had to do nothing to get except make some phone calls. It's a full week of work for many people
     
  8. Lindsay_W

    Lindsay_W Well-Known Member

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    Be careful with choice of word, 'kickback' implies an illegal transaction.
    Where have you seen that they get $100 per cleaning fee? If you didn't get a quote yourself from a different cleaning company how can you even know if you got ripped off or not?

    As a previous renter who has had to have bond cleans completed I have used a different company to the one recommended by the PM and the cost was exactly the same, that's been my experience.
    Also how often do you think a PM can ask 10 owners to clean their properties? it's not sustainable or realistic IMO
     
    Last edited: 13th Dec, 2018
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  9. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    You can only require tenant s to exit the property on the same state of cleanliness as when they arrive.

    If the carpets are freshly steam cleaned, it is ok to get the tenants to leave them in the same condition. Same with the cupboards.

    Properties are sold in varying degrees of cleanliness, there is no set standard.

    The PM is simply looking after your long term interests.
    Marg
     
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  10. Jamesaurus

    Jamesaurus Well-Known Member

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    Yep this could be right.... However the PM reply i got was:
    Legislation states the carpets have to be cleaned to a professional standard and a receipt provided, the tenant is then required to complete this at the end of the tenancy. It’s important to start the tenancy on the right foot with the cleaning.

    I dont know if thats the case though... i cant find anything in the
    Residential Tenancies and Rooming Accommodation Act 2008, s65, 185, 188 ??
     
  11. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    I call BS on that claim. The Tenancy Act in every state contains no explicit requirement for steam cleaning, professional cleaning or production of a receipt supporting external cleaning.

    An example of this view is in the NSW Act which limits the requirement to include terms to enforce cleaning only when animals have been maintained and the lease contains that special requirement. However the cleaning can be performed by the occupant using those britex machines in the supermarket or they could vacuum and take the chance the standard is sufficient.

    NSW Prohibited terms
    Section 19(2) of the Act says: “Terms having the following effects must not be included in a residential tenancy agreement:

    1. that the tenant must have the carpet professionally cleaned, or pay the cost of such cleaning, at the end of the tenancy [unless the cleaning is required because animals have been kept on the premises during the tenancy],
    QLD has similar rules :

    Carpet cleaning
    If the carpets were cleaned to a certain standard at the start of the tenancy, the tenant must ensure the carpets are cleaned to that same standard at the end of the tenancy.

    However, the property manager/owner cannot require the tenant to:
    • leave the property in a better condition than it was in at the start of the tenancy (e.g. require carpets to be steam cleaned when this wasn’t done before they moved in)
    • purchase goods or services (e.g. a carpet cleaning service)
    • use a specific carpet cleaning service
    • pay a set fee for carpet cleaning
    These are offences under the Act.

    The agent may be trying to avoid the concern about entry and exit condition however the tenant has rights to clean the carpet themselves if they wish. But the example used in the above QLD website do repeat what the agent is doing

    Example: The property manager fills out an Entry condition report (Form 1a) indicating the tenant received the property with steam cleaned carpets. They also include a special term in the tenancy agreement which stipulates ‘the tenant will professionally steam clean carpets at the end of the tenancy and provide a receipt’. The tenant signs the Entry condition report and tenancy agreement. At the end of the tenancy the tenant fills out the Exit condition report (Form 14a), indicating the carpets have been professionally steam cleaned to the same standard they were in at the start of the tenancy (apart from fair wear and tear) and attaches a receipt.

    I would oppose the issue of using a professional service and merely consent to ensure the carpets are steam cleaned if that is the case. I do not see where any evidence (receipt attached ?) of professional cleaning is produced to the tenant on entry :)
     
  12. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    In the last month, SEQ has been affected by a large amount of smoke and dust (ash) from the nearby bush fires. Perhaps your property has been affected, although I would think that would be the exterior only.
     
  13. mikey7

    mikey7 Well-Known Member

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    I had tenants 3 days after settlement. Settlement was 4 weeks. The house was empty for 4 weeks and 3 days. A lot of dust can accumulate during that time.
    I've never used the PM's recommended trades, and I've made it quite clear with them that my trades must be used. Haven't had any issues with 3 seperate PM companies.
     
  14. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    So how long has the property actually been vacant for .
    It doesn't take long for dust to build up ,especially around darker types of benchtypes, you tend to get creepy crawlers that gain entry under the doors with more dust and cobwebs .
    The toilet and bathroom would need a good wipe over.
    You have had multiple people walking through it.
    Especially with older carpets you dont realise how dirty there were until you get them steam cleaned.
    We do it every year or two with one of our short term rentals , this year we didnt get 2 of the smaller bedrooms done , because they looked in pretty good shape and did not get a lot of use, compared to the living areas and the master bedrooms.
    After it was all done I was kicking myself for not doing the 2 smaller rooms as the difference was amazing.
    Its pretty poor form when the first task the tenants have to do is give the place a complete clean including the toilets and bathrooms.
    In the right light later in the day all the dust stands out
     
    Last edited: 13th Dec, 2018
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  15. Jamesaurus

    Jamesaurus Well-Known Member

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    Great analysis @Paul@PFI ! I note that if I do get it done now then they will have to leave it in a similar manner- and hopefully if there is minimal time between tenancies therefore I wont have to pay for this again.

    @mikey7 and @marmot raise good points that although only settled Monday and from my POV was in v tidy condition, it has now been 1 month since its been vacated.

    Im now leaning in favour of copping the fee- thank you all for help in my decision making
     
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  16. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    In eight years, I have NEVER seen a sold property handed over to me in 'bond clean' condition. There's a big difference between clean (i.e. not filthy) and bond clean (95%+ free of dirt/dust/contaminants). As a young male, I'm not especially fussy either, so I hate to think what all the fastidious middle aged lady PM's think :p.

    Although there are stories of agents out there getting *cough* 'referral fees' from their trades, it's really not as widespread as people make it out. It's unlikely that the PM has any underlying interest in using these cleaners.

    Definitely worth having the carpets cleaned too- most tenants are still under the assumption that if they were professionally cleaned at entry, the same needs to be done at exit. It frustrates me to no end that this isn't an actual requirement, because aside from OBVIOUS soiling, it's impossible to tell how dirty carpet is just by looking at it (unless you have white carpet I guess). Those Britex machines don't do anywhere near as good a job as a proper carpet cleaner and can actually make them worse if the tenant is especially liberal with the water jet.
     

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