Need Help- Was asked to go through QCAT Process

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by M0123, 12th Oct, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi Guys,

    I am new here and seeking for advices for how to deal with this situation.

    We moved out when we cleaned the house and rang the agent on Sundayto check the houses and do the exit condition report with us because we marked unclean and dirty on most of the items on entry report. The agent said they will do the exit condition and let us leave the keys on the bench top.

    On Monday, we were told the house was not cleaned and they want to deducted $ 200 from our bond and showing us the photos. They also refused to show us the houses because they said someone is living in there already.

    We think this is unfair because they should have asked us to go back to do the cleaning and plus they didn't take the entry condition into consideration. Tuesday, they sent us email with bond refund form (deduct $ 200 ) and asking us to sign on it without exit condition report. They showed it in front of us but never give us a hard copy. I told them this is unfair and we would like to go through RTA and thus we submitted the claim into RTA first.

    Now, they are angry and of course they dispute our claim and told RTA that they would like to deduct $ 500. RTA also told us they refuse to negotiate through RTA and would like to go through QCAT.

    The proof I have is the entry condition report, the record that I rang the agent to ask then to check the house and also the form the want to deduct $ 200 from us. Any ideas that what else can I do here ?

    They are also complaining that we don't do public area cleaning but our ex-roommate was told that they don't need to do the public area,then why should we ? Should I get our ex-roommate to write a notice saying that they were not asked for public area ?

    Guys, please help! I feel we are going to lose because according to RTA terms, we should do the exit report not them.

    Thanks a lot.
     
  2. Jodi_Swyny

    Jodi_Swyny Member

    Joined:
    11th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    8
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi! I used to work for the RTA for 8 years so I do have a lot of information for you that may help - I will send you a private message soon ish just to clarify a few things! ;-)
     
  3. Chivaun.Shortis

    Chivaun.Shortis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Sep, 2017
    Posts:
    193
    Location:
    Logan and Gold Coast Region
    The agent has three days to supply you with a copy of the exit condition report. I would be taking this to QCAT it may be only $200 but its the principal. They didn't give you opportunity to go back and clean and didn't give you a copy of the exit condition report. But its up to you if you want to fight it or not. I would also be asking what date the new tenants moved in
     
    wylie likes this.
  4. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Thanks, C.

    Yes, they haven't provided exit condition report so far. And they said it costed them $ 200 for cleaning and $ 300 for garbage removal. We never seen the receipts. The truth is, we knew our ex-roommate done the cleaning with the house owner.There was no cleaning services hired. But there is no way to get my ex-roommate to prove this because he is working in the house owner's company....
     
  5. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I have to fight it, because they submitted the application to QCAT and we will be called for listening.
     
  6. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Sorry, forgot to mention. The new tenants moved in on the next we moved out.
     
  7. Chivaun.Shortis

    Chivaun.Shortis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Sep, 2017
    Posts:
    193
    Location:
    Logan and Gold Coast Region
    QCAT is just like small claims its not scary just both parties stating their case. You have more than enough evidence to prove the agent has done the wrong thing by not giving you a copy of the exit condition report, didnt give you chance to go back and clean and not give you a copy of the invoices.

    Has dispute resolution happened with RTA yet as this normal procedure has to happen before being taken to QCAT
     
    wylie likes this.
  8. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The agent refused to go through RTA resolution and wants to go to QCAT directly.
     
  9. Chivaun.Shortis

    Chivaun.Shortis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Sep, 2017
    Posts:
    193
    Location:
    Logan and Gold Coast Region
    Well if they are paying to take you to QCAT let them. As I said there is enough evidence that will more than likely go in your favour
     
  10. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    THanks lot, C for your help. I am just worried that once they show the receipts we will have to pay the fees which we knew they are forged. Like I mentioned, my ex-roommate and the houseowner did the cleaning but there is no way to get the ex-roomie to prove this as he is working in the owner's company.
    Can someone advice how can I prove they forged the receipts without involving roommate ? :)
     
  11. GapPhantom

    GapPhantom Active Member

    Joined:
    15th Aug, 2016
    Posts:
    37
    Location:
    Brisbane
    C, that's the case for Entry Inspections..

    Exit Inspections, by RTA policy should be completed by the tenant using the Entry Inspection as reference, then handing this to the Landlord/PM for them to agree/disagree... The form 14a clearly indicates this, and is laid out such that the tenant/s comments are reported first...

    I know it's not typically done this way and the PM does it, hands it to the tenant, but by RTA policy, it's the tenants responsibility to do...
     
    Pumpkin, Perthguy and wylie like this.
  12. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    13,932
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It's tricky insofar as you don't want to create a problem for your friend who told you he helped do the cleaning. I believe you have a really good case to win this case, even without this.

    What is on the receipt for the cleaning? Is it a made up company?
     
  13. Chivaun.Shortis

    Chivaun.Shortis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14th Sep, 2017
    Posts:
    193
    Location:
    Logan and Gold Coast Region
    @GapPhantom that is true. Sorry my fault I assumed the tenant handed the exit report to the real estate. My fault to assume as we all know what that means. My apologies
     
  14. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The agent never show us the receipts but I am sure it is easy for them to make it up. The owner owns this property management company they can write whatever they want on the receipt.
     
  15. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    You are right, we didn't do the exit report and believed the agent it is their obligation to do it. This could bring us into trouble...As we as tenants, didn't fill the exit report at the first beginning...
     
  16. Bris Jay

    Bris Jay Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    31st Jan, 2016
    Posts:
    195
    Location:
    Brisbane
    When they submit a claim through QCAT, they need to attach their evidence/receipts. You will be served via post with the QCAT documents so you can make inquiries with the cleaning company to ensure that the receipts are legit prior to going to QCAT.
     
    wylie likes this.
  17. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,095
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    So, it's your word against their documents? Do you still have the entry report & photos of how you left the property?

    Receipts must contain basic information - supplier, ABN, contact details/address, descriptions of works/service/goods provided.
     
  18. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    2,719
    Location:
    South East Queensland
    1. The agent needs to conduct the exit condition report and provide a copy to the tenant within three business days and provide a copy. Technically the tenant is supposed to fill out and supply to the agent first, but realistically that rarely happens and has little to no affect on the process moving forwards anyway. The tenant failing to supply their copy of the report to the agent initially in no way affects the agents obligations to provide the report back to the tenant.

    2. It is expected that they provide you with reasonable opportunity to rectify issues- particularly of a non-professional nature, such as cleaning.

    3. It is a conflict of interest for the owner of the Property Management company to also own the cleaning company. Tribunal is not a fan of this practice via property owners or real estate owners.

    4. They cannot simply change the amount they are attempting to deduct from your bond from $200 to $500 unless there is a very good reason (e.g. extra concealed damage found).
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    You also mentioned a couple of things that make me think your tenancy may have been under an R18 Rooming Accomodation Agreement, in which case you are NOT responsible for routine cleaning of any public areas in the house- only your private use room.
     
    Ted Varrick and hobartchic like this.
  19. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi Tom. Thanks a lot for your advices !

    I haven't received the cleaning receipts from them yet. But I hope QCAT will send copies to us before our hearing. If they issue the receipts under their company, it will be favouring us, I guess ?

    They changed it to $ 500 by saying costed them $ 300 for garbage removal.. which again, I knew my ex-roommate did this for us by dumping them on the street at no charge...And the garbage was clothes hanger and heater...which we thought could be useful for the next tenants. But now we knew it is our obligation to remove this regardless what reasons...
     
  20. M0123

    M0123 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    12th Oct, 2017
    Posts:
    55
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I have entry report agreed by them that the room was not cleaned. But we didn't take photos when we left the property. We were told by agent they will fill the exit report and send it back to us, and we believed them. So far, we haven't received the exit report.