Need advise - PM engages plumber with expired ABN, plumber does a dodgy job, got paid and escapes

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Jaik2012, 10th Apr, 2019.

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  1. Jaik2012

    Jaik2012 Well-Known Member

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    The story goes like this. I had drainage issues in one of the IPs where rain water was gathering around patio area and sometimes entering the property during storms/heavy rains. As usual, PM has organized trades and I chose one out of the two recommended plumbers after getting her opinion. Plumber did the job, got paid but it turned out to be incomplete work after few wet weather events. PM tried contacting the said plumber numerous times with no luck.

    Meanwhile, I have been assigned a new PM due to some changes within the property management company. I have asked new PM to send another plumber and take a look at the problem. New plumber came back with scope of work that sounds like a lot of work. Since the old plumber wasn't responding to emails & calls, I have asked my PM if they have business address to which she replied they don't. All they have was phone number & email id.

    I jumped online to check my luck if the address could be found using his ABN. To my shock, his ABN is invalid since 2016. When I quizzed about this, my new PM says she has no idea why this was not checked then. Overall, I had good experience with both the PMs till date but the response (see below) suggests there is nothing they can do for their mistake. I'm not sure what options do I have in this scenario.

    Any suggestions/advise?

    PM response: (names edited for obvious reasons)
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I am not sure why <old PM> used a plumber whos ABN was cancelled 2 years before she engaged his services, this is something she obviously didn't look into nor does many property managers i would assume when they engage the service of a tradesman they were recommended.
    I can assure you that when i hire the services of a tradesman they must fill out a contractor appointment for as well as providing current insurance details, licensing details and abn details before we use their services.
    This doesn't happen everywhere though and not all property managers do this.
    As mentioned earlier, i think if you want to try and recoup this money that you paid to <old plumber>, you should definitely seek legal advice and take the appropriate actions.
    This is unfortunate and im sorry i wasnt here at the time to possibly prevent this from happening
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
     
  2. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Does the plumber still have a licence or is it for works which do not require a licence eg stormwater?

    Is there a copy of an invoice?

    If they have a licence, then the matter might be able to be persued with ATO or Fair Trading.
     
  3. Jaik2012

    Jaik2012 Well-Known Member

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    Plumber has active license under class 'plumbing and drainage'. ABN isn't active. I have copy of the invoice. Any idea how do I decide whom to approach b/w ATO and Fair Trading? Also, I'm interstate. The property is in Brisbane.
     
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Your accountant will be able to advise what can be done about someone trading without an ABN.
     
  5. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    My initial thoughts on the info provided is that the expired ABN probably has no real relevance to any issues of liability.

    Probably best to focus on the main issues.
     
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  6. sparklestorm

    sparklestorm Well-Known Member

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    I am more concerned about the spelling mistakes and the grammatical errors of this property manager. He/she may claim to follow through with their due diligence obligations but I would consider jumping ship - clearly that one is sinking.
     
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  7. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    Or have they changed to another ABN.
    Some people like to keep an ABN for a business name, although the business may be operating under a different business name.
     
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  8. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    I love it how their reply in a nutshell is "sorry, its not my fault, good luck with sorting out the mess we were partially responsbile too
     
  9. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Report it to the ATO with evidence.

    You could pursue it in small claims and it wont go down well to use a expired ABN (keep copy of the record so they dont re-register and hide the fact) as well as the incomplete matter etc. They may award costs. Whether they pay is another matter.

    The PM may have been negligent but the costs may well exceed the value to go the court route. A lawyers claim may get some action ?
     
  10. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Its still a breach of tax law. Likely a consumer law concerns for misrepresentation and even fraud if GST was involved.

    An ABN is a tax identifier and has no relationship to a business name. It can be directly linkedtoa entity eg a company but an ABN entity can have 20 registered names. You can do a search on ASIC and it will show a REGISTERED business name and the legal entity and a ABN. Unreg names are illegal.