Nathan Birch

Discussion in 'Property Experts' started by Karina, 8th Jul, 2015.

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  1. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    My views about Nathan Birch can't be expressed on this forum as they clearly breach its user agreement.
    Hopefully that gives you some sort of idea what I think of him and his antics.
     
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  2. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    why must you attack the mods!
    4. Do Not Insult Moderators
     
  3. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of words that I'd use to describe Nathan, "moderate" isn't one of them.
     
  4. braybusrp

    braybusrp New Member

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    Hi Ryper, i was strung along for 3 years by zinger finance around 2014, it took me that long to realise that they're either crooks or incompetent of the various so called property investment company i've dealt with so far for who they claim to be. I've learned since then. May i ask a referral to your broker, accountant and conveyancer please. I would like to improve and develop my my portfolio. I will keep researching this site, but thought there's no harm in seeking a referral. Regards.
     
  5. Piston_Broke

    Piston_Broke Well-Known Member

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    Wow so many posts...

    First I'll say there's lots about NB I like, and there's lots about him I don't like.
    FTR I watched the ABC Live Hack when it first went to air. NB copped a lot of crap from all those commies and stood his ground, 5 stars.

    Remeber these were the days that finance was easy and banks were begging people to take their money. Not like nowadays, or beforadays for that matter.
    Also a few factors played in his favor that put him in the right place at the right time. Still gotta give kudos for taking action.

    A fictional account about a boy wonder:
    A young guy could'nt afford much so the properties he bought were the cheapest on the market.
    So he bought properties that were trashed, in very bad shape, run down etc and in some of the cheapest areas in Sydney, mainly 2560 postcode.
    Good timing was that house commision decided to sell a lot of there properties at the time so many cheap and often trashed properties came to market albeit the worst part of town and still surrounded by HC.

    So where a house in good nic would sell for 250k, he would buy it trashed for 180k from a desparate seller with often only one buyer interested.
    Money was cheap and noone with a decent income was interested in such properties.
    Not to mention that anything 2560 in forums like this was considered "low quality real estate" by most. All of which worked in favor of buyers.

    He would then tout he bought the IP at 70k "below value".
    Make sense? Though the numbers don't add up to the std RE investor.

    Then he would do the cheapest ugliest possible rennovation using the cheapest contractors. So of us know what that means.
    Again he would tout things like "50k reno done for only 25k".
    A factor in these cheap renos was that the tenants (most likely HC) didn't come in with high expectations of fittings and finesse. And they'd probably trash soon again anyway.
    So in a sense it didn't matter, and while there's a good chance the tradies cut many corners, but would buyer even know.

    Once the reno was done, get the most optimistic RE agent to give an estimate sale price...and viola 280k is the new valuation.

    So the IP was bought at 70k under market value, 25k saved on reno, 280k valuation...profit 85k.
    Maybe not exact numbers but you get the drift.

    Buying before properties hit the market?
    When agents signup a property for sale it generally takes a week or two before they are advertised.
    So what a keen RE investor would do is rings every agent in town every 2 or 3 days and ask about properties just listed.
    As many of us know, RE agents are very keen to bloat about sales "before advertised" and make a quick comish. So not a bad strategy, even though they'll soon hate you.
    So not really before being on the market, just before being advertised.

    Rinse, repeat, and expand to other similar areas like Mt Druit, Tregear etc.
     
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  6. thunderstrike888

    thunderstrike888 Well-Known Member

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    Too many haters. Good on him I say.

    He's making money and doing well for himself and his family. If he is making money off the gullible or uneducated who cares? Many ppl make money off the educated on a daily basis like tradies taking people for a ride every single day.

    If I met him I'd shake NB's hand and congratulate him on having the guts to do what 99% of ppl his age dont have the guts to do or dont have the motivation or drive to do. Let him enjoy his money.
     
  7. spludgey

    spludgey Well-Known Member

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    Me!
    While I fail a lot of the time, I try and treat people like I want to be treated.
    I (like all people) am uneducated about most things and wouldn't claim to be an expert in a great many.
    Should I accept being ripped off in all those aspects that I'm not an expert in? I would hope not!
    So it's a justification to be a bad person because there are other bad people out there?
     
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  8. LDC

    LDC Member

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    I know some have had a good experience with his company, but this was my experience 5+ years ago. We paid $20k upfront for his team to start looking for an interstate investment for us. In short:
    - They offered us sub-standard homes in NSW & QLD which needed a lot of work or were in a flood-prone area.
    - Emails with the info would come through with words like "URGENT', 'NOT ON MARKET' - and offered us 24 hours to make a decision to buy. I hindsight, my guess is that those homes were difficult to sell.
    - 5 years later, those homes have either stayed at the same value or increased by 5k max (as per realestate.com).
    - When we called them out on it, they reluctantly refunded our money.

    Not trying to bring him down. I have a friend who made good money off a property she bought through him. But given the current value realestate.com is showing on the 3 he offered me, I'm glad we went with our gut & got our money back. Do your research before you commit.
     
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  9. Sick_of_scams

    Sick_of_scams Well-Known Member

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    I got severely stung by using a buyers agent a few years ago. They were very popular online, media, etc. I was going through an extremely tough time and very vulnerable psychologically and needed help. They promised they'd take care of me. Long story short, I was sold a property that was likely from stock that was hard to sell and agent did a favour for the real estate company trying to sell it. I had to pay a crazy amount to get it to a reasonable standard, way beyond what they estimated. The a##h###s claimed it was now worth $100k more. I got 2 independent valuations and it had only increased by about $20k. I spent $156k all up. Years later I still could not make a profit from it.
    I was refunded a portion of the agents fee after threatening media and legal action, and forced to sign a non disclosure Suing them was going to cost too much and too high a risk. In hindsight, the company saw me as an easy target and exploited me. I kick myself every day. Nearly sent me over the edge and ending it.
    I don't trust anyone to do with buying/selling properties. Self education and doing it yourself is the only way. Looking back, if you can't do it yourself I'd never have invested in property. You will probably get ripped off otherwise and left with something that is going to make your life a misery and keep you poor. There are bad people out there.
     
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  10. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

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    This is really sad and I'm sorry to hear it. Was it definitely a fee-for-service buyer's agent you used and not someone selling OTP stock making commission? Just when you say you were 'sold' a property, no BAs sell property. I'm wondering if you were scammed by the classic off-the-plan spruiker or you were just bought a dud by a BA who didn't know what they were doing.

    As with anything, there are good and bad people in any industry, some intentionally bad and some just incompetent, and I have come across both in property as well. Although some feel that organisations like PIPA and REBAA aren't worthwhile, they do have stringent application and vetting procedures that member applicants must go through. There are also fees to pay by members and at the very least, they are held accountable to that organisation. Due to this, you can be fairly comfortable that if you engage a member they will be of high ethical and professional calibre so it's recommended that people consider these first. We have just finalised our REBAA application and been advised it's successful so I can tell you it's not an easy process and not any BA can join!

    I know this is cold comfort now, but please know that not everyone is out to scam clients, however yes, I do agree that due diligence either directly or on the professional you engage is imperative. The good news is that property is generally very forgiving so I hope that you will see your returns over time, as you probably will.

    All the best.

    - Andrew
     
  11. Adrianz

    Adrianz Active Member

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    In which state did your friend make good money off a property she bought through him?
     
  12. LDC

    LDC Member

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    NSW. He offered me a dilapidated unit in Minto which has not increased. Perhaps with extensive renovation, that could change.
     
  13. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    That's not entirely true. There are a few that call themselves BA's that sell older stock just like OTP sellers. They first source the properties, then they 'sell' these onto their clients for a hefty fee. There was one in particular that I recall, many years ago. Can't remember what they called themselves, but they sourced all sorts of dodgy properties, then their clients just went through a data base & selected which ones to buy.

    As I recall, this is what Nathan does. Not saying that he has dodgy properties as such, but I believe that's how his 'Buyers Agency' works, not as a fee for service.
     
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  14. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

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    So I would say they're not BAs as BAs don't sell property, they buy property ;) To break it down further for accuracy, a sales agent or buyer's agent can't technically sell something that's not theirs or buy something that's not for themselves, so a more accurate definition would be that sales agents broker a sales transaction on behalf of a client (which is why they call them brokers in the US and not sales agents) and a buyer's agent brokers an acquisition on behalf of a client.

    Semantics perhaps, but anyone who sells or brokers a sale on anything isn't buying it and therefore not a BA, they're selling and therefore a sales agent. I've heard of many OTP spruikers referred to as BAs by their clients before but it comes down to those people not really knowing the difference.

    Unfortunately due to the lack of regulation around property and property investing, these people are generally free to call themselves what they l like. I will concede that essentially makes my (generally accepted) definition of a BA moot, however I would like to think that on a practical level most people are able to differentiate with a little research.

    There are essentially 3 ways to differentiate between a BA, a sales agent and spruiker:

    1. If it's a spruiker, they are recommending purchases to a client and taking a commission on the basis of that purchase.
    2. If it's a BA, they do not sell and therefore do not handle monies via a trust account. They simply charge a fee to acquire on behalf of the client.
    3. If they're a sales agent they will effect a property transaction via a trust account (vastly more stringent regulations). This does not happen on the buying side (BA) or referral for commission side (spruiker).

    Furthermore, a BA will actually have a client sign an agency agreement for direct representation. If a client is not signing an agency agreement with anyone to whom they make money from (whether they call themselves sales or buyer's agents), then they're just not agents for the client, period. This is the defining documentation that diferentiates between spruikers and BAs/sales agents. No spruiker I know has a client sign a agency agreement to then refer stock to them. The reason they don't is because they would then come under the scrutiny of the Act and Regulations of that given state, and you can be sure that most if not all spruikers do not want that!

    - Andrew
     
    Last edited: 12th Jan, 2021
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  15. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    I agree, however that still does not stop them calling themselves buyers agents, and the public believing it to be so.
     
  16. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

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    Yep, definitely. It's a problem!

    - Andrew
     
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  17. Sick_of_scams

    Sick_of_scams Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for late reply. You are right, the BA did not sell the property. They were the first leg in the process. Yes, they located the property and I used one of their recommended lawyers to do the conveyancing. They even provided a quote from their appointed builder for renovations. The BA estimated $15 to $20,000 needed to bring it up to acceptable standards to rent. Told me this via email and phone calls whilst I was overseas.
    Their builder gave a quote around $65,000 right near settlement after weeks of not getting back to me on wanting a quote. I believe to delay my obvious shock and complaints. And no way I could pull out as contract signed.
    And the costs were ludicrously high for the items and jobs needed (they were also very adverse in giving me a cost breakdown saying it was unusual to do). I came back to Oz twice to get my own builder and do as much as I could myself (I tore up carpet and ripped up decking myself and dug trench for example). Nearly ended up in hospital as dizzy spells and doc said my thyroid was shutting down and dangerously low levels he claimed I was close to going into a coma. Almost fell off ladder several times. Very stressful times.
    There was a lot more work needed on the property. Their building inspector they appointed did not even check the gutters - had trees growing out of them and falling apart everywhere. Decking was rotted underneath - the inspection report on the deck was absolute garbage. So many expensive problems.
    I even had meeting with company where BA apologised to me for giving such a poor estimate. But the boss there was a typical smooth talking salesman.
    They claimed their BAs and other services were run by competent and experienced people. Website full of accreditations and 'awards' etc
    He then stated in a few years I could spend $200,000 to do a renovation and make a decent profit. They knew my budget limits which they took notes on in the several video conferences and emails etc. WTF?
    I don't have that sort of money lying around. And banks won't loan to me as medically retired and no salary.
    I asked them why recommend a property like this when I had been very specific on my budget limit inclusive off all costs. It was well over budget. "Cost of doing business" was their response.
    I felt furious. Signing a non-disclosure has gagged me in reporting them to the media. But was desperate to get something back to help me, despite it being trivial amount.
    And their estimates of my property's worth post renovation was total BS. Based off comparisons on high end, very nice, fully renovated properties with similar land size and value in same area. Real Estate agents who gave price estimates said there was no way my property was worth anywhere near what they said.
    I will never forgive them.
     
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  18. Spiderman

    Spiderman Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he's started a new podcast
     
  19. thunderstrike888

    thunderstrike888 Well-Known Member

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    Birchy is probably laughing all the way to the bank the way property is behaving at the moment. He is well known to invest in the traditional blue collar suburbs like Blacktown, St Marys, Mt Druitt, Doonside, Rooty Hill, Seven Hills, Willmot, Tregear, Lethridge Park etc etc....

    All these suburbs going crazy crazy.....
     
  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    yes,

    For sure
    He has made pots of money for his clients who purchased in these areas
     
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