NAB won't state credit card closed - loan provider won't accept NAB documentation

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Mimi LH, 18th Jun, 2019.

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  1. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    Hello,

    Any thoughts on how to resolve?

    We have called, emailed, visited bank branches of NAB asking for a statement that a credit card has been closed (requested closure a few months ago). They refuse to write a letter stating this - they have twice provided a letter stating the credit card is closed IF we undertake steps a,b,c (which we have).

    The loan provider refuses to accept the NAB letters as proof the credit card is closed.

    The relevant legislation seems to be:
    Australian National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009. C2019C00154, “133BW Credit provider to give effect to request to terminate credit card contract”.

    What are my options (less than 3 weeks to settlement). Launch a law suit against NAB?

    My last ploy was to write a second note asking them to close under the T&C's of the cc contract (hoping they would admit that it was already closed). But they were on to that trick and skirted around it.

    Thanks
    Mimi
     
  2. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    try this contact

    its the PRE AFCA contact and will usually get a swift outcome

    Have you obtained your credit file ?

    ta
    rolf


    National Australia Bank Limited
    Member number: 10022
    ACN/ABN: 12004044937
    Also known as NAB

    Challenger Mortgage
    Trading as Homeside

    UBank

    Hide contact details
    Member details
    Date joined: 1/07/2008
    Website: www.national.com.au

    Complaint contact
    NAB Resolve NAB Resolve
    NAB Resolve
    National Australia Bank Limited
    UB4524, 800 Bourke Street
    Docklands VIC 3008
    Toll Free No: 1800152015
    Business: 1800152015
    Fax: 1300306013
    Email: [email protected]
     
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  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Ask to get put through to their complaints person and tell them if you do not have confirmation before 4pm today your settlement will fall over and you will incur losses due to their negligence and breach of legislation and you will lodge a complaint with the AFCA tomorrow.
     
  4. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    The irony is that the NAB often asks for evidence that a card has been closed, yet won't provide this themselves.

    But it's hardly the only inconsistency in banking.
     
  5. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    Thanks for the responses all. NAB are telling us that the legislation has recently changed and they legally cannot provide a letter stating the cc is closed.

    They say mac bank should know this.
     
  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    ask them for the relevant legislation and section of the act.
     
  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    I just read section 133BW of the relevant act. It's fairly short and makes no reference (either way) to the credit providers ability to notify the consumer of the outcome.

    The relevant passage is probably more the entirety of Division 8 - Ending credit card contracts. Even this doesn't appear to say anything about verification.

    I've sent an email to my business manager at the NAB to get their spin on this.
     
    Last edited: 19th Jun, 2019
  8. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    I agree it doesn't really say anything about verification. Much appreciated asking for comments from NAB.

    Our broker sent us a letter from a previous client (all identifying info blacked out) but NAB said that was before the legislation had changed and they couldn't now write a similar letter.

    Did I refer to the correct legislation? Does asic have specific rules that would cover this?
     
  9. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    NAB guy just acknowledged my email indicating that he hasn't seen this before and he's seeking further comment from the operations team.

    A solution might be for your broker to contact their NAB relationship manager directly via email and ask them to confirm if the card has been closed. Perhaps Macquarie would accept this sort of confirmation.
     
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  10. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    Phone the Financial Services Ombudsman.
    They will give you the number of a conflict resolution person in the NAB who will have the power to sort things out.
    Marg
     
  11. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    ive been using the ombudsman for years, and I love what they do,
    but it takes such a long time (which is not their fault)

    it should never have to get to a stage for most situations for the ombudsman involved,

    I have 2 cases with the ombudsman at the moment, and they are both stupid cases,

    one is with Telstra, they owe me $200 from january, and keep on sending me contradictory and stupid statements over and over again
     
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  12. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    Thanks all!

    Just to remove any doubt - here is the letter that Macquarie are refusing to accept:

    Closing your NAB Credit Card account
    You contacted us recently to close your NAB Visa Card account ending in xxxx. There are still somethings we need you to do in accordance with your NAB Credit Card Terms and Conditions, if you
    haven t done so already.
    What you (and any additional cardholders) need to do:
    1. Destroy all current cards by cutting through the chip and magnetic strip.
    2. Check for any direct debits on the account (e.g. gym memberships), and get in
    touch with the merchants to change the details.
    3. Stop using the card details (card number and expiry date) to make purchases or
    withdraw funds.
    4. Pay all amounts owing as soon as possible. This includes pending transactions,
    interest, fees and charges. If you don t know how much is owing on your account,
    please give us a call.
    If you have already completed these steps, closure of your credit card account is complete.
    If you haven t, the NAB Credit Card Terms and Conditions will still apply and your credit card contract
    will not be terminated until any outstanding amounts debited to your account have been paid to NAB.
    What we ll do:
    1. Each month, we ll send you a statement if the account balance is $10 or more, or
    if any transactions have been processed since the last statement.
    2. The closed account will be visible in NAB Internet Banking for 3 to 6 months after
    the balance is paid. This is so you can still access your transaction and payment history.
    Any questions?
    Please feel free to call us on 13 22 65 between 7am and 9pm AEST, Monday to Friday, or 8am
    and 6pm on weekends with your NAB ID and password handy. We'll be happy to help.
    Regards,
    NAB
     
  13. Propagate

    Propagate Well-Known Member

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    If you login to your account, does it say that it's closed on the dashboard? If so, would a screenshot of that help?

    When I closed mine I could still login in for a while but can't remember what the dashboard said though. It's been closed a while, (Macquarie this is), but I can still login in it's juts now there's no accounts listed at all, just an empty dashboard.

    In fact would that help too? If you can still login but there's no account, would a screen grab of an empty dashboard with no active accounts showing help the situation?
     
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  14. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    Another update - rang the financial ombudsman - very helpful - they suggested - write to both complaints departments together and get them to sort it out.

    Unfortunately by law they have to give both banks a timeframe to respond if we make a formal complaint - this can be reduced if the issue will cause hardship or homelessness.

    I'm just stunned that I have to sort this out myself. Fortunately a number of people (here and brokers via phone) who have provided great advice in suggesting the best way forward.
     
  15. Perp

    Perp Well-Known Member

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    Why the reluctance to issue a 'card closed' letter?

    I suspect the short answer as to 'why' card issuers won't do it, is that card issuers seem to not be legally obligated to confirm closure, and since there's all downside and no upside to providing this information, they don't want to take on the legal risk. (There's some small cost involved, too, but I doubt this is the larger issue.)

    If the card issuer provides that information in writing, knowing - as a reasonable person would - that the mortgagee is going to rely on it (and assume the couple no longer have a credit card debt or account), then the card issuer is assuming legal risk for the consequences if that statement turns out to be untrue for some reason.

    There are at least a couple of scenarios that make such an assertion risky.

    a) The mortgagee is (arguably) reasonably entitled to rely on an assertion that an account has been closed (from the card issuer) as being equivalent to an assurance that the credit card has a zero balance. The time delay in transactions working through the credit card system makes such an assurance risky. Imagine if a large $ value of transactions haven't yet worked their way into the system at the time the issuer writes the cardholder a 'closed account letter', but over subsequent days $10s of K in transactions come through. How? Customer lies about not having any pending transactions. Vengeful spouse holding additional card. Take your pick.

    The couple later run into trouble with their new mortgage, and the mortgage finds out they were making credit card repayments on the credit card that the card issuer had assured the mortgagee in writing was closed. The mortgagee is likely to sue the issuer if they have losses on the mortgage. Even if the case didn't ultimately succeed, it'd cost a lot to defend such an action.

    b) As acknowledged, the Ts&Cs say that if you've notified them and done X, Y and Z (eg shredding the card, not using it, cancelling direct debits, etc), then your account is closed. If the issuer issues a statement saying that the account is closed, they're warranting the truth of all four of these things having been done. But three of those four aren't in their control. X, Y, and Z are actions the cardholder has to take, so how can the bank know if you've done them or not? Why would they commit in writing to - legally - taking responsibility for you having completed X, Y, and Z?

    So they don't do it - as a card issuer - because there's big potential downside in terms of legal risk, and little to no upside, and no compulsion.

    When they're wearing their mortgagee hat, then of course they want to push legal responsibility for "the credit card actually having been closed" back to the card issuer, rather than wear that risk themselves, @Peter_Tersteeg! You're talking like they're the same organisation with internally consistent goals! ;)

    What to do?

    I think that contacting the two complaints department is only likely to delay things, due to the time for you to write to them, them being allowed to respond, etc. This should be resolved today (or tomorrow, latest).

    I'd leave the Ombudsman processing running, in case you to ultimately need it, but I'd try to get it resolved in a shorter time frame by having fewer people involved. The Ombudsman complaint likely has at least 7 people involved in the chain end-to-end.

    I think that your mortgagee will naturally be more motivated to sort this out than the card issuer, because for the mortgagee there's at least an upside of getting your business. I would provide your representative in the mortgagee's organisation / hierarchy - ie personal banker, lending officer, broker - the following four items:
    • the credit card Ts and Cs,
    • the letter you already have confirming that you've requested to close your account, and
    • evidence / proof that you've done X, Y, and Z. (Maybe in the form of stat decs?), and
    (the combination of the above three effectively establishes that the account is closed)​
    • print out or screen capture of your credit report from creditsavvy.com.au, which lists your known credit facilities and is free to access, hopefully no longer listing the credit card, further bolstering the above.
    Then ask them nicely to sort it out by close of business tomorrow, within their own organisation or with the card issuer's assistance, as they please.
     
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  16. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    @Perp I think you've provided an insightful explanation of why it often takes card issuers a week to issue these types of letters, but it doesn't justify not issuing a letter confirming card closure at some point.

    Credit card provides have certainly been guilty of self servicing business practices at the borrowers expense in the past. The client should be able to receive written assurances that their request has actually been processed.
     
  17. Athikalaka

    Athikalaka Well-Known Member

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    Does this also apply to Credit Reports? I closed my 28 Degrees card a year ago and when I check my report (can't remember which one but I'll check later) it doesn't show a closed date unlike my other cards listed.

    Edit: Experian/CreditSavvy shows the credit card status as open but obviously last reported is last year and no payment on time history unlike the other cards. Still, status Open is annoying
     
  18. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

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    is your feedback from the AFCA contact that has been provided above ?

    ta
    rolf
     
  19. Mimi LH

    Mimi LH Member

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    Yes, the feedback was to write complaints to both companies together, and that I could make things worse if I raise a formal complaint with afca - because then they are legally allowed to take 30-40 business days (or something) to respond. That wouldn't help!

    Thanks Perp for the creditsavvy.com.au tip. It actually says the credit card is closed with a $0 limit.
     
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  20. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    They won't accept a stat dec?
     
    Last edited: 19th Jun, 2019

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