My subdivision issues, thoughts?

Hi all,
I’ve run into some issues in my subdivision process and thought I'd ask for your opinions.
Background:
- 2 existing houses, 1 title
- Plan: battle-axe subdivide, 2 titles with 1 house each, potential granny flat for each title in future
- Water supply and sewer lines separated, s73 certificate done

Issue 1) Stormwater location? How to find them?
- Service locators cannot detect location of stormwater pipes as they are made of PVC
- No diagrams of stormwater anywhere, tried DYBD, nothing in purchase contract
- What to do now?

Here are diagrams:
- Is it safe to assume that the back lot has it’s own stormwater pipe? From the observations i've taken below, it seems very reasonable to assume this.


What do you guys think about pouring water (with added organic dye) onto the roof of the back house and see if it comes to the road?


Issue 2) Electrical not separated
- Here are current cables as per service locator markings


- Here is a suggested plan by an electrician: install an underground pit on the carriageway easement (battle-axe arm), run the street cable to the pit, then run to the back lot. The reason for the pit (and not a private pole) is because the driveway is already quite narrow.
- Does this seem okay? I’m a bit annoyed because the plumber has already bored holes for water…and now we have to bore another hole for the electrical


- I don’t want to start the electrical process yet until I understand where the stormwater pipes are, in case that I need to bore another hole for stormwater.

Any help would be great. Thanks.

 

regarding drainage, does the block slope down TO the street or down AWAY from it? IE is the street lower than the majority of the block? If so then that pipe terminating at the gutter is highly likely to be for 1 or both houses and it should be easy to test by running water (if you want to do either house without dye just wait long enough for the flow to stop when testing both houses) if it is blocked/slow/unclear what is going on then try the dye.

If however the rear of the block is below street then the pipes could lead anywhere, including nowhere, rubble pit, easement, etc, and you might need to either get busy with a shovel or hire a plumber to dig it up and see where it goes if you have already exhausted the other location service options.

I don't quite understand how plumber can already have bored holes for water if you still don't know where existing drainage pipes run?

In general (regarding your "annoyed" comment), this is why I try to encourage first time developers to work with larger town planning firms who can add wisdom regarding things like service trenches etc. They cost more but save time and money on certain aspects. Project managing yourself with individual trades means you learn a lot (good thing) but it will take longer, probably create some duplications in the design and you will need to keep checking in with council to ensure you don't end up with something non compliant.

Keep going! Remember its fun hehe

 

1. Pot holing. Dig where it comes off the roof. Take your guide from there. Dig another 4m (or whatever away) find & follow pipe. Repeat.

2. Where does it empty onto the street? Follow back from there

3. Run a camera with GPS etc up the pipe

4. Are you sure that there's a stormwater system not a rubble drain?

 

@Peter P

yes you can run a fluro dye down the pipes, but you still need to locate the pipe position to make sure it isnt crossing the other lot. if it does then you will either need to re-direct the pipe or create an Easement over the stormwater pipe where it crosses the boundary.

Either you have asked the wrong questions or there are some other issues we dont know about, because the underground service locators can run a cable up the pipe, which can be detected with a wand above ground.

All the services need to be seperate or an easement created to provide legal rights to use the adjoining property for any relevant services.

ie: in your electrical diagram you have the cable crossing lot 101 to get to the pit in lot 102. this would require an easement for electrical purposes.

in your stormwater diagram you show the pipe crossing the front of lot 101. this would also require an easement for drainage over lot 101.

before your Council signs the subdivision certificate they will usually request a letter (or a plan marked up in red) from the Surveyor stating that all services are contained within their respective lot or easement.

In the snapshot of the Survey plan (DP) i can see the Surveyor has noted [c] [w] which are probably proposed easements.

The Surveyor will not (cannot) lodge the plan until it has been released and endorsed by council.

Council will not release the subdivision plan until all the conditions of your DA have been met.

 

Really good notes, thanks guys

I bought this property as an IP. Found out a year later it had a DA approval for subdivision but lapsed. Council excempted the expiry and allowed us to proceed with conditions met.

Me and missed are at the end of our accumulation phase, got some equity left over from Sydney boom, subdivision was a natural step forward.

First time doing this, learning a lot.

@BuyersAgent
Carriageway slopes to the street. Very portable that all drainage flows towards street.

@Scott No Mates
I dug for 2 hours, got blisters on my hands, gave up.

@bmc
The surveyor is satisfied with what he sees and is happy to sign off that stormwater is contained within easement (without definite evidence). I feel uneasy about this, but he's the pro. He asked me I can put a hose on the roof of the back lot and let him know how it goes.

If the surveyor is satisfied stormwater iscontained within easement and plan is submitted to council, how likely will council come back and ask us to show evidence?

 

I havent had much to do with Bankstown LGA but others like Mosman generally request a red markup or a letter from me stating that all services are contained within the easements.
I always locate the services and / or visually inspect.

 

I didn't suggest dig, pay a labourer.

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

I've just finished separating the electrical for my subdivision. The electricians installed a new private pole and dug a trench to run a new electrical underground to the back lot. This is what the final result looks like.



I was quoted to have bitumen laid where there where gaps in the trench areas. The site was left with a uneven surface. I was invoiced today. What should I do?

 

Is that the old concrete just laid back into the trench? Tell them to come back and give you what you wanted/are paying for.

 

Did the quote include to re-finish the trench? If so do not pay the invoice and ask them to finish. I would prefer concrete given the rest of the drive is concrete. If you intent to rip it all up to re pour it all when your new build is finished then its not such a big deal.

 

If you are having trouble locating poly under ground, a length of fence wire can be fed inside the pipe to act as a trace wire. Fold the end over and tape it so it's less likely to snag. Useful provided there aren't any 90 degree bends. Has saved me numerous times. Good luck with your sub-division!

 

Hey @Peter P how did you go?

 

It was hard dealing with the electrician. He was not reasonable.

I complained about the uneven driveway, presents trip hazard etc. He tells me off that there's nothing wrong with it, if the tenants don't want to trip, just don't walk on it.

I told him to cancel the job and remove the bitumen from the quote and I'll concrete it myself... He tells me that he'll go out to the site and put bitumen in, you can't turn back. Huh?





Overall, electrical job was done well, dispute the bitumen job, they managed to remove old conduit underground and replace with a new one (about 70m worth of cable) and connected it to a new private pole. Cost mid 3000 with the bitumen. I didn't have the choice of choosing concrete because they didn't offer it. I should have sourced an external concreter, lesson learned from a newbie.

Surveyor has adjusted plans and have sent to council... Now waiting for the subdivision certificate

I had a question if anyone knows...

Once I get my subdivision certificate, will be issued 2 separate council rates immediately or after submitting subdivision certificate to LPI to create the 2 new titles?

Reason I ask because I am planning on KDR of front lot to build PPOR but I am not planning on doing this within the next year.