Mining is back QLD! 16.5 billion dollar project approved!

May may not, don't know. Haven't they closed off funding as per their announcement - meaning they have enough to get things going.
The important thing here is to make sure gigs like this and other large scale ones come to Brisbane and qld, else Sydney and Melbourne will continue to laugh at qld and eat their lunch as they have done for decades.

 

South Australia already at 57% wind and solar in 2016/17

The Australian Energy Market Operator predicts that the state is heading towards 80 per cent renewable energy by 2021/22,

South Australia already at 57% wind and solar in 2016/17

There's a reason the banks dont want to touch this one, the business case is defunct.

 

you cant make sure mining gigs come your way, you actually have to have good deposits of minerals or coal or gas discovered in order for companies to be interested. If there was a new discovery of a big deposit of nickel or lithium, I am sure big mining companies would be lining up to invest, regardless of whether it was NSW/VIC or QLD.

QLD only has its mining lands to offer, QLD state is deep in debt and not much else to offer other than tourism. Big projects will come so long as we have the resources found, just like big iron ore mining has gone to the Pilbara.

NSW and Vic economies do have some mining but the reason they have been performing better and are more attractive investment destinations has more to do with their size, population and infrastructure.

Just like Amazon is coming to Australia in a big way soon. Do you think they will want to set up their warehouses in Sydney or Melbourne first??

 

actually many countries, japan, china & across europe are going back to coal and opening up new coal fired power stations. technology gas progressed that it is rather clean burning,
they tried there hand at renewable energies they are unreliable look at SA on top of their black outs around 20% their power comes from Victoria, including a back up cable that is on full connection.
coal will always be around for the simple fact,its cheap, reliable, iit creates hundreds of thousands of jobs, people on good incomes that pay tax, businesses & trillions in revenue from royalty payments to governments

 

Yeah..you know what I mean...if Sydney/Mel have the population, size and infrastructure benefits as you rightly mention, then Brisbane needs to do something to netter compete.. Such as making it easy for large scale projects such as this...ease of doing business is one aspect.

 

that is the greatest myth stirred up by the greenies and the ABC! & basically the coal being the major factor in killing & bleaching of the barrier reef is utter crap

look where the majority of the bleaching occurs its up around the cairns area
Record die-off of coral confirmed by scientists
(feel free to google more)
the closest coal port to cairns is in Bowen (Abbot Point), followed by other ports in Mackay and Gladstone, after being filled the ships head out in the usual shipping channels in an eastern directory, the ocean currents flow in a southerly direction down south of cairns

the Mine will create thousands of jobs, many of the mines in the bowen basin much smaller will have over 1000 people on its pay role that will go through the gate on a regular occurrence

 

Problem is that solar only generates power during the day
you need batteries to store the power which are extremely expensive
So its nowhere near as cheap as coal

 

I guess there are ways to make it easier, but there have been massive investments and projects in natural gas and Coal mining already. Plus we have had many residential development projects in the city as well, not to mention other billion dollar projects like oft mentioned Queens wharf and those down at GC coming soon. So I wouldn't say it's that hard for companies to do projects.

If the QLD state gov can get the growing state debt and budget under control , that would be the best thing they can do I reckon.

We can try having better infrastructure and be more welcoming with tax incentives for companies etc... but there is nothing much we can do to compete population wise. Sort of a chicken and egg thing..

 

Not true.
Check out solar thermal power. Basically lots of mirrors heat up molten Salt, molten Salt stays hot overnight. Molten Salt boils water, drives turbines etc...

Solar Thermal Power Plants - Energy Explained, Your Guide To Understanding Energy - Energy Information Administration

For energy storage there's pumped hydro, use PV to generate hydrogen and of course batteries...

I get that coal is cheap but the cost over time of purchasing the coal vs the upfront cost of thermal solar it now seriously competitive. This isn't pie on the sky hippie stuff either. It's being rolled out on a massive scale in the US, Southern Europe and a lot of developing countries cause it works and is cheaper.

Coal is going to have its place for a long while further in existing infrastructure and probably baseload....But if you're building new, right now, you'd be nuts not to look at all your options.

Every day solar gets cheaper. It's only a matter of time before it is more economical than coal. If that's not today it is seriously only a few years or months away.

 

@Adam J , below is a link from the Guardian. 1460 jobs by the looks of things and not thousands.
@Phase2 , the project makes zero economic sense. They need thermal coal to trade around $100 to break even and that is a far cry. Why should we subsidize them when no bank or financial institution is willing to touch the project. A thousand jobs or so is not worth it.
This is a political play by Labor to try and save a few seats from ON. I think it will cost them dearly moving forward...
Here's more from Michael West:
Coal glut, cheaper renewables, Adani makes no sense at all | Michael West

 

Next thing you know, there'll be investor success stories about people having positive portfolios worth millions....and then the crash...

 

Sure as SA transitions to renewables there will be teething problems, this is the case with any new technology/infrastructure I don't understand why this would be an excuse not to pursue a more efficient, cleaner, and ethical form of energy production.

Large funds/national funds and private equity investor's, are dropping fossil fuels for the unsustainable fuel production method that they are. The money is shifting in favour of renewable tech companies. Investor demand is giving rise to market products that reflect this.

 

All this stuff is good but its pretty early days in reality.
They cant keep the salts hot enough for a long enough period for it to be self sustaining.
I can see a day when this stuff is mainstream but its not now or in a few months.
Any published case where solar is cheaper than coal is ignoring operating reality. The sun doesnt alway shine! So to provide a full load 24/7 you have to oversize these installs and there storage capacitys to a point where its not economical to use as a stand alond technology.
Yes maybe coal will get phased out (gas)but the world isnt getting any smaller and i think this will keep the demand there in the medium term as the scientists crack the renewables code. So far they havnt been able to.get something for nothing - its pretty much true for everything in life
Its all good to be a supporter of renewables but maybe you should go and tell the 300 million indians without electricity that they will have to wait another 20 years until full load solar is economically viable at a price they can afford
Sorry boys your going to have to keep burning cow dung and timber because some westerner activists reckon that burning coal from a power station is worse for the environment.

Yes solar is better than coal but the real argument hear is coal v dung

 

I don't have any qualifications in the environmental sciences. But I'm pretty sure the reason for bleaching has little to do with the actual geographical location of the coal itself, but rather the pollution caused as a byproduct after processing.

 

Outstanding reply! You've got some good points there..I still reckon we're closer to the top of the bell curve than you think...but anyways its a debate and your points are sound. I guess time will tell.

However the main problem facing the project is finance. They are going to need someone to pour Billions into a technology with a limited life, negative PR, into a company with a less than stellar reputation and less than stellar balance sheet.

This project still has a while to go before it gets out of the blocks.

 

Coal prices have peaked out since late 2016 and after the little upside due to cyclone debbie look to dip back to $50 levels again in the near future. Not sure what breakeven price they are looking at but at current market conditions, not much profit to be made if thermal coal goes below $50 and continues going down (subject to policy changes in china)

renewables show promise but in most big economies, they are just a small portion of the entire grid. Any ramp up in Solar or others will likely take another decade or so to become substantial enough to edge out demand for coal, but for sure coal is starting to become less attractive for power generation. Most of the G7 seem to think so, except for the delightful Trump who wants to go back to cheaper coal lol..

 

The business case for the project is not based on the sale price. It is based on the ability to secure a reliable supply to Adani's (future) power stations in India.

This is not a conventional project by any means. I still have my doubts that it will proceed, though I've been doubting for the past 3 years and they seem to keep moving it along. They are a lot closer than I ever expected them to get to kicking this off.

FYI - Australian thermal coal is currently around US$90/t and the floor was around $85/t YTD.

 

Agree with this.
Like most people I’m hoping for great long-term outcomes with renewables. I see a lot of young people on the forum extremely excited about battery cars and driverless technology etc. I actually think there will be some great future breakthroughs with concentrated solar using Fresnel lenses and the like, which will make the PV panels we see now look very pedestrian in a few years time – so good times ahead if we can have commercially reliable, highly efficient sources of sustainable energy.

But my own opinion is that coal needs to be part of the equation for the next couple of decades still – to support our own reliable baseload for industry, and in this instance help poor and disadvantaged people in an overseas nation, at least until better solutions can replace them. And don’t kid yourselves – it will take time, like curing cancer. To simply dismiss this project on the grounds that one might ‘prefer’ solar and renewables, and any coal project is bad is a bit simplistic.
There are plenty of facets to this discussion, including the quality of the coal itself, and the location of the mines. eg There are companies wanting to develop coalmines on prime agricultural land in SEQ which is something I am personally opposed to (very biased toward farming) and there are other sections of the state where the land is not so prime and the mines will be welcomed by industry-starved communities, which I am supportive of. You must remember that there is a whole bunch of Australians residing outside of inner-city suburbs that see things through different eyes to you guys. Anyway I just ask people to please have an open mind, make further enquiry, and not simply dismiss any new coal project out of hand because coal is ‘bad’. That will just lead to tribal arguments of rednecks v soy latte brigade which doesn’t take us forward as a progressive nation.
My view only. I welcome other POVs.

 

yup adani is probably for india coal supply security..

yeah prices still highish now , my data shows below $80/t now
but they were at sub $60/t last june
Coal | 2009-2017 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News

 

yeah, that's US Coal, Colombian export prices are similar. Aussie (Illawarra) coal commands a premium.

Actually I'd be interested to see how the Carmichael quality compares to the Illawarra stuff.