[Melbourne] upvc windows

Hi,

I am thinking to get 8 upvc windows and sliding doors in Melbourne. Can anyone recommend good value/quality suppliers and installers?

Thanks,
Kai

 

Hmmm...Is it that bad? I thought it is commonly used in Europe.

 

I and my neighbours all have 50 year old timber windows.

Actually I just found a supplier/installer on google and they have timber look (laminated) upvc windows. From the photos on google reviews, it looks not bad. Not sure how durable it is though.

 

I have looked at UVPC at home shows for the last couple of years and been considering them for my renovation. They look OK, and seem well constructed. They are guaranteed for 25 years...but then what? The guarantee is only as good as the company offering it, and most haven't been around all that long.

I'm favouring timber as it can be repaired if there are issues down the track. Also, as an exhibitor of timber windows pointed out, there's plenty of 100+ year old timber windows around, but how many 25+ year UVPC windows can you inspect?

 

I have had 2 uPVC tilt and turn sliding doors and a tilt and turn window.

All 2300mm high with double glazing comfort glass, and argon gas filled. Being uPVC with profiles from Europe they have a decent gap between the panels of glass and a brilliant energy and wind ingress rating.

They are very solid and with every cent (and more) of the $8,000 they cost.

 

Which shows are you thinking of?

UPVC is hugely common in Europe (especially Germany etc) and has been for years!

It’s become more popular here in the last 10 years as you can get very good energy ratings. Maybe keeping the cold or heat out isn’t as important in QLD as it is in Victoria?

Also, my tilt and turn sliding doors have a ‘positive seal’ so drafts are kept out much more effectively than normal sliding doors. And they can be locked in the ‘top inward’ tilted position for security and keeping out rain while letting in a breeze.

A lot of the wooden windows with double glazing here don’t have an effective gap between the panels - but uPVC windows do.

 

I worked on a project 30+ years ago and they were One of the first in the country. At the time they were expensive and a poor solution but now, a good double glazed unit provides the thermal break, performance and insulating properties expected in a modern window.

Tge units today are much better than their ancestors.

 

Hi guys,
uPVC have been around now for 30 + yes now and very good quality. 20mm gap is the most efficient for thermal and larher then that becomes better for noise reduction.the timber effect has been around for 25 + yes and look good nowadays.
Shop around as there are expensive here.

 

How is the cost of timber windows compared to uPVC ones? $/m2

 

My experience of homes with European uPVC double or triple glazed tilting windows is that they are very comfortable to live in.

I would like to replace our leaky wood sash windows with European windows in our PPOR for our own comfort.

However, I really don't know if the investment would be recouped whenever I sell.

Could local buyers be wary of uPVC and actually see them as a negative?

 

Grenfell windows were uPVC....

 

I am surprised they haven't taken off more here considering they are apparently resistent to salt corrosion. With a lot of suburbs here clustering around the coast, you'd think that being immune to salt air damage would be a beneficial feature...

 

That issue (according to Wikipaedia) is attributed to the cladding (not the windows).

Upvc windows are apparently flame ret#rdant. This website does a pretty good job of explaining it. Is uPVC Window Fire Resistant? | AIS Windows

Screenshot of relevant bits here: Screenshot_20230706_075500_Chrome

 

The window weight and thickesses and the handling all are factors here. We dont have the low low winter temps that double and triple glazed insulated windows address and usually require more extensive walls with insulation also. We get by with brick veneer. Our window industry pumps out single thickness glazed windows which are more affordable. And where bushfire hazards exist glazed with laminated / tempered. Our stronger UV issues also may affect PVC glazing unlike say the UK / europe

 

Not just the cladding… The Grenfell Tower Fire: Summary of the Expert Evidence - The Grenfell Enquirer

'
Egress: entering the cladding

There are two routes by which the fire could have entered the cladding – either directly through the windows frames and/or the extractor fan and surrounding materials, or externally by flames escaping through the windows and igniting the external ACM panels.

uPVC loses mechanical strength at relatively low temperatures. It melts at around 50°C. Ordinary glass, by comparison, melts or breaks at around 550°C. The heat from the smoke of the relatively small fire was capable of causing the uPVC to fail, thus opening a path for the flames to any of the combustible materials outside. This would have happened 5 to 11 minutes after the fire started. The fact that the uPVC was glued rather than mechanically fixed in place would have contributed to the speed of the failure.

Prof Torero thinks the most likely path was flames spreading across the ceiling and reaching the inside of the window igniting any of the components exposed by the melted uPVC such as the PIR window insulation or the rubber damp proof membrane. A small fire was able to ignite any of these materials.

If you are relying on materials to provide any protection in a fire you ought to be in my opinion deeply suspicious of uPVC to provide it.‡‡‡
Prof Bisby, 2018
'

 

not uPVC,

fky fky fk fk fk polyisoCYANurate foam. the point is, someone thought that improving the aesthetics, and improving the insulation was worth doing, not realizing that using a easy combustion foam next to a CYANide related foam is not particularly safe https://www.researchgate.net/figure...-foam-in-a-range-of-conditions_tbl6_301572988

PVC is not cyanide related but it not a clean burning plastic unlike most plastics. It is low melting point and probably not a good idea in bushfire areas.

Anyway, just because a change of windows may cheapen a place, shouldn't necessarily stop it. My own PPOR is slowly downgrading from wood to aluminium windows. The liveability benefits (mosquito screens) outweigh the valuation /prestige downgrade.

 

Many building materials are acceptable for a basic fire test but in reality fire tests dont replicate all issues.

I worked for a company that had a product submitted for a CSIRO Australian Standard fire test. Passed and was fine. However we were advised we needed to test beyond that point for product liability insurance and so further tests were needed. However in a highly intense fire the material would release gasses that increased combustion temperatures and enhanced the rate of spread of fire. . The gases were tested and found to be highly toxic and create breathing issues for escape from a bulilding in low volumes. And it was acrid black smoke. So it passed but we considered it was dangerous. This is how many laminated cladding products work. They may even be tested in a horizontal position and the dripping flammable plastics arent even a factor where in real life the flame will quickly spread when vertically installed.

The words flame retartdant does not mean they wont burn but may not ignite with a minor heat source applied. It means they will burn. And the burning will vary with alot of other factors. Its like the difference between flammable and inflammable. Most people dont know of the difference. Non flammable doesnt mean it wont burn either. Almost everything can be burned. Its a matter of what temperature and conditions.

This is what a EV fire looks like with steel and plastics. The plastics are fire retartdant treated. Gone. The steel ? Where is it ? Its gone.