Melbourne lockdown protests 19 Sep 21

Of course there are different laws in effect, but that doesn't change the disgusting framing of protestors by the police and media.

Would you frame the Chinese students who attended the Tiananmen Square protests as aiming to "take on and have a fight with the military" or were they "protesting their (lack of) freedoms"?

Bottom line, unless you think the protestors would have gone out of their way to attack the police, if the police presence had only observed (out of the way) the protest, then you agree with me that they didn't go there "simply to take on and have a fight with police".

We have a different understanding of the term if you think taking away someone's ability to move freely through (public) space is not a form of violence. What is it called if you stopped a woman from moving through a public space, brandishing pepper spray if she tried to leave?

 

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Continuing the earlier analogy I used when you claimed physically blockading someone is not a form of violence... if you blocked a woman from moving through a public space, threatened her ability to leave with pepper spray, what is it called when she fights back and tries to get through anyway?

 

Holy smokes - that a bit of a long bow to draw.

The Tiananmen Square protest WAS a peaceful protest until the military decided to open fire ... it was the protesters that attacked first in Melbourne. The Tiananmen Square was to protest against horrendous human and political oppression ... pretty sure being able to go to the shops, beach and basically live your life without risk of being shot/arrested/disappearing (all that is being asked is wear a mask, get vaccinated and stay at home unless essential) is not horrendous oppression.

The majority of these protestors are simply angry people who are looking for any cause to vent themselves at. There were even Trump 2020 placards and flags being waved- pretty sure that wasn't anything to do with perceived freedoms (and soooooooo last year **roll eyes**)

 

If the police had not blockaded the peaceful protest I very much doubt it would have gotten violent in Melbourne either. That's my point.

From my perspective the police blockading a peaceful march is the first attack and act of violence (whether justified by law or not is beside the point). You are welcome to your opinion if you think otherwise.

 

I am always learning and i get your understanding of violence.

I have been subjected to extreme violence in the supermarket when i have been prevented from freely moving through the aisles with some very aggressive shoppers, who have weaponised the trolley. I have been boxed in repeatedly, and there has been a funny odour that reminds me of CS gas, and also aldi perfume.

I knew it was wrong but now i can name it as the violence it is.

 

How many times do I need to repeat myself?

Sure context can matter. In this case it was a peaceful protest being blockaded by police with weapons. Yes, I think forming this blockade and threatening protestors with pepper spray was a form of violence in this particular situation.

Justification starts to get very nuanced.

Are the actions of every protestor justified? I doubt it (there are always hooligan outliers who take things too far).

Are the actions of the police blockading the street justified? Not in my opinion (for many reasons, one of which is they realistically caused a greater risk of COVID spread through their actions e.g. kettling the protestors, hundreds of body on body arrests, etc).

Are the actions of the police in targeting media with pepper spray justified? No.

My problem is with sweeping generalisations that are used to dehumanise the protestors and make them all seem like thugs for peacefully protesting and pushing back against the violent confrontation caused by the police presence. As I quoted in my first comment:

I think this is an unfair characterisation of what went down. If you think that is what went down, then you are welcome to your opinion.

 

its ironic how those that dont believe or think its all exagerrated are so willing to risk others health and wellbeing, by going out maskless, attending protests, deliberately making physical contact etc like they are a crusader for proving some point

 

I guess you haven’t had much experience or practice in the ability to make logical deductions? A classic case of 2 + 2 making 5.

The protesters were engaged in illegal activity.

They then rushed the police, who were were forced to pepper spray them (Note; not shoot them or run them over with tanks, by the way).

Somehow in your mind that’s become unjustified ‘violence’. Boxed in? Rubbish; they could have easily turned around.

 

As has been the case for many who've protested the removal of freedoms throughout history (such as Ghandi and MLK, introduced to this thread by others).

 

Not all of them were violent but all of them were taking part in an illegal protest in breach of public health orders so all behaving stupidly and selfishly.

 

I doubt we have sufficient video footage to make the comparison, but I'd be surprised if Ghandi's / MLK's protests were absent comparable examples of protestor behaviour to Melbourne. Most of the Melbourne footage I have seen shows a few projectiles thrown at police, protestors running/forcing their way through police lines (which I wouldn't equate to physically attacking the police), then much more of the police attacking protestors (and media) with pepper spray, throwing them to the ground, etc.

 

So you're a police officer and there's a frenzied and illegally gathered crowd trying to physically barge their way through you're lines. For some reason you should disobey commands and just let them through(putting yourself and other officers at risk of assault and also making apprehending them more difficult).

As for comparisons to the MLK protesters-these people also happened to have 2 arms and 2 legs. That's where the comparisons end.