House & Home Man dies after 'breaking into home' in Newcastle and being detained by homeowner

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by alexm, 27th Mar, 2016.

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  1. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    He got one.
    Maybe not the one he wanted, but was the one he deserved.
     
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  2. Darlinghurst Boy

    Darlinghurst Boy Well-Known Member

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    He was a good boy says his Mum.
    He was only out at 3am looking for a party .
     
  3. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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  4. 2FAST4U

    2FAST4U Well-Known Member

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    Sounds pretty harsh for the home owner to be charged with murder. Personally I think people should be able to use necessary force to protect their property. In this case one of the problems was it was no longer on their property. Secondly when someone is killed it's fairly hard to say it was 'necessary' force. I'd have no issues with someone getting a hiding, but this seemed to go beyond that. Australia is very lenient with the law so if they gave the guy a beating and he happened to die in most cases the charge would be manslaughter. Either way it's hard to have much sympathy for a career criminal and the courts will come to a verdict or the charge might be downgraded. Time will tell.
     
  5. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    So the death sentence is appropriate for housebreaking?

    Sure, by all accounts, he wasn't a nice guy.

    But gloating over his death seems inappropriate to me.
     
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  6. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    A 16 year old girl. What a disgusting creature.
    At least people have one less of these scumbags out there to worry about.
     
  7. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but the intruder has wrecked the homeowners life. The intruder had a choice to break into a house at 3am. The homeowner did not have a choice of someone breaking into his house at 3am. The homeowner has now been arrested and charged with murder over the actions of another person. Seems very wrong to me.
     
  8. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The homeowner had the option to not continue to flog him in the street...

    we don't have capital punishment in this country for a reason and even if we did, that decision would be made by a judge with a thorough understanding of the law and the specific circumstances of the case.

    we cannot have these decisions made on the fly by someone justifiably angry or anxious at the fact that some idiot was breaking into their house.

    there's no doubt that the guy who died was a dangerous and highly unproductive member of society. there's also, imo, a lot of grey area here in terms of whether or not the homeowners actions to that extent were justified. ultimately we were not there and don't know the specifics.

    eg, he couldve been defending himself and justifiably afraid for his life. that would make the charge seem unfair.

    or he could have, in a fit of rage, continued to flog the guy breaking in long after he was a threat. that would in fact be illegal. the point is that to openly justify his death is simply not appropriate from a legal or moral pov, as a country we don't want it to become normal for people to take the law into their own hands and to be judge, jury and executioner
     
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  9. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    True. However, being woken up at 3am by an intruder you would have to assume his judgement was somewhat impaired.

    This is assuming the homeowner deliberately killed the intruder. There is not evidence this is the case.

    I did nothing to justify the death. I merely pointed out the that intruder had a choice to break into the house. The homeowner had no choice to have his house invaded.

    It remains a simple fact that if the intruder had not entered the house he would not have been killed. I don't know if what the homeowner did was wrong. I wasn't there. He has been arrested and charged. The legal system will decide if he is to be punished. I'm not saying the homeowner should beat an intruder to death. I'm saying the intruder should have stayed out of someone else's house.
     
  10. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    of course the idiot intruder should have never done that, in no way am i at all justifying or excusing his actions. trust me on that, ive been on the receiving end myself where a whole group of people broke in and I had a shotgun pressed against the back of my head.

    I was referring to your statement that "it seems wrong to me ", as you said yourself you don't know if what the homeowner did was wrong so how could him being charged be wrong? it could be entirely justified.

    these things can escalate very quickly, eg yesterday in perth some idiot kid stole a bike. the guy whose bike it was found him up the road and was giving him a flogging. the kids uncle came out of the house, confronted the the guy and ended up getting stabbed and killed. all over a bloody bike.we now have 1 person possibly facing a lengthy jail sentence, 1 person dead who, for all we know, could have just seen their nephew being attacked on the street and was defending him and one kid who has to live with the fact that if it wasn't for his actions his uncle would be alive.

    if the bike owner had either a) just recovered his bike or b) called the cops, this wouldn't have happened. personally I can't complerrly rule out the fact that I wouldve been tempted to hit the kid and take the bike back but what if ina fit of rage after i toom the bike off the kid, i hit him and then he fell over, hit his head and died? I wouldve probably been charged with manslaughter or murder.

    yes we have an imperfect police force and justice system which often makes the majority of us going about our business within the law feel like those breaking it aren't punished harshly enough. that means that sometimes they'll get away with it, sometimes they'll get a slap on the wrist and do it again etc. ultimately I'd argue that's still a better outcome than one where we end up in a state where it's common for victims of crime to take things into their own hands.

    look at America, arguably the fact that so many intruders have been shot and killed has lead to a situation where robbers now will be armed themselves and things escalate very quickly. it also leads to the numerous cases of people shooting and killing family members or just general members of the public who they've mistaken for intruders.

    we are certainly nowhere as bad and that's a good thing.

    effectively unless we justifiably feel our lives are in danger we cannot severely hurt or kill intruders, from my layman's understanding. it seems pretty fair although obviously is open to interpretation to some extent. no system will get it right 100% of the time but ours does a decent job imo
     
  11. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstood my post. It seems wrong to me that the actions of another person has led the homeowner to be arrested. I agree with him being arrested and charged. The intruder is dead and the homeowner's actions leading up to the death need to be examined to ascertain if he broke the law. What seems wrong to me is that the homeowner's house got broken into through no choice of his. The actions of another directly led to his arrest. His arrest was right. The actions of the other were wrong.

    I think that's a very different situation and the guy giving the flogging was clearly in the wrong.

    I agree. Vigilate justice is wrong and we don't want that here. Although there is no evidence (at this stage) that this is what happened. It will be up to the courts to decide if the homeowner broke the law. The homeowner appears to have assulted the intruder in front of police, so IMO it is entirely appropriate that the homeowner has been arrested and charged in this case.

    People defend their property all the time and they are not always charged. It will be interesting to see if any charges are laid over this incident on Sunday night:-

    AN ATTEMPTED burglary left one man unconscious in hospital after an altercation at a Greenfields business on Sunday night.
    The would-be burglar was disturbed inside a commercial business on Rouse Road when the 49-year-old owner and a 29-year-old man responded to the alarm.
    A truck and trailer had been reversed through the back door of the property.
    They discovered an intruder inside who became involved in a physical altercation with the 29-year-old man.
    The intruder was knocked unconscious and was transferred to Royal Perth Hospital from Peel Health Campus for urgent medical attention.
    Mandurah detectives are investigating the incident.

    Intruder unconscious after Greenfields burglary attempt
     
  12. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    fair enough, yes I'd misinterpreted some of your post, apologies.

    it's a tough situation that ideally no one would ever be put into, no winners in this case at all with 1 dead and another in jail. how much did he think he could steal from a house like that??? you'd hardly be expecting to make a big loot.
     
  13. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    The only positive I can see is the scumbag will never do it again.
     
  14. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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  15. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    This will cost him dearly, even if he gets off completely. These sorts of barristers charge $10k per day.
     
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  16. shreko

    shreko Well-Known Member

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    This case has really brought out mixed opinions. Much of the fire is fuelled by the media and socials.
    I want to add my 2 cents. The police will not simply charge someone with murder who is 'protecting his children' unless he has really done something wrong. This isn't America. People should have more trust in our justice system. Soon enough the truth will come out in court. If the victim frequented the house to buy drugs off the offender, then would you think differently about this case? The media thrive off these cases.. and if you knew that the victim was invited over to buy drugs, people would shrug the case off as an altercation between 2 crims.

    People who make up extreme petitions saying 'release this bloke from jail or else' are just plain fools, you can't act so surely about something you know nothing about. The only people who know the story are the police and immediate witnesses and the police acted on what they knew. Moral of the story, don't buy into the media, and have your own opinion.
     
  17. lewy89

    lewy89 Well-Known Member

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    First words out of his mouth to police should have been

    "I feared for my life"
     
  18. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    And people complain about trades people and the call out fee,let,s just hope both sides get justice ,and once the old silk wig is in place they take no prisoners..
     
  19. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Here is a story about a WA shop keeper who was charged with assault over a scuffle with alleged shop keeprs. The charge was dropped, but he still had $60,000 in legal fees to pay.

    Police hold 'discussions' not 'negotiations' with shopkeeper

    I reckon this NSW could result in legal fees of about $1mil if it goes to trial - and if he can afford it.
     
  20. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Besides the intruder guy was massive and had convictions for aggravated burglary, rape etc... the person who was charged had injuries to his face too.
     

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