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Man dies after 'breaking into home' in Newcastle and being detained by homeowner

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by alexm, 27th Mar, 2016.

  1. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

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    Just read this article and thought it might be an interesting discussion.

    I think it's a sad situation across all counts however based on the scant information, if the deceased hadn't broken into the home, he'd still be alive.

    Looks like the homeowner is going to get in trouble for defending his family and property which is sad. It would appear offenders have more rights than homeowners in Australia.
     
  2. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    So hard to take a side without more information. On the one hand it could have been some idiot but harmless teenagers. On the other hand I always think back to that girl in Homebush that was repeated raped in front of her family about 15 years ago. I think the perceived (and not necessarily real) level of threat that the owner experienced should be factored in.
     
  3. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

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    How you would arrive at this conclusion from this matter?
     
  4. Newyproperty

    Newyproperty Well-Known Member

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    Don't know how they're going to get a murder charge, they'd have to prove it was pre-meditated

    I know that if someone broke into my home and it was dark, I would be beating on that person like my life depended on it and I wouldn't stop till they stopped moving. If he died, so be it. I actually have a large bayonet next to my bed.

    A home owner has no idea what an intruders intentions are. They could have a weapon, they could be there to rape you or a member of your family or it could just be a petty thief. You just don't know and I wouldn't be waiting around to find out.
     
    Last edited: 27th Mar, 2016
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  5. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

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    How could the police charge the homeowner for murder if this wasn't premeditated?

    I recall when I lived in the USA seeing a couple of similar stories where the homeowner was defending their families, and killing the intruders. They were never charged with any felony.
     
  6. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    Apparently (and allegedly) the break-and-enter-er suffered a broken neck, and his life support was turned off earlier today.

    Apparently (and allegedly) the home occupant handed himself into Newcastle Police late this afternoon and the charge was upgraded to murder.

    I'm sure Terry_w can comment on the defense of provocation, and how it has changed (arguably, rightly or wrongly) in the last few years...
     
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

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    He killed someone, possibly not accidently. Murder doesn't have to be premeditated.

    But just because he was charged doesn't mean he will be convicted. There was a case a few years ago involving a female security guard who killed someone. She got off.

    And we cannot just allow homeowners to start killing people tresspassing can we.
     
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  8. Simon Moore

    Simon Moore Mortgage Broker - Melbourne Business Member

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    My understanding is you are OK if you 'neutralise' the threat, if you say knock them unconscious, and then keep beating them and they die, you are in trouble. Or you confront them with a knife, they try to run away, you chase them, stab and kill them, that's murder.
     
  9. Speede

    Speede Well-Known Member

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    Similar thing happened in Yagoona...when that pensioner killed the junkie that decided to rob him...anyone remember that? He never got convicted.
     
  10. alexm

    alexm Well-Known Member

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    You're absolutely correct here - I agree with you however there's a difference between the allegations of this case and someone wandering onto a homeowners property during daylight hours.

    Will be interesting to see how this case pans out.
     
  11. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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  12. JetstreamVic

    JetstreamVic Active Member

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    In Victoria, (and assuming legislation would be similar across states), you can use 'reasonable force'.

    Therefore is the guy came into the house with a knife and was threatening you/your family - you could expect that you could use a greater level of force to deal with the issue.

    Conversely if you acted like @Newyproperty says that he would have above, then you could find yourself in a position where you used excessive force, and therefore find yourself in the poo.

    In Victoria, murder and manslaughter is differntiated by the intent of the person, that is, were you actually trying and intending to kill the person.

    Above all, just because you are charged, does not mean that you are guilty. You will still be tried before you peers, and a competent lawyer would put your case forward.

    I think it is pretty poor reporting to infer something - however that is today's sensationalist media and click bait articles.
     
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  13. Aaron Sice

    Aaron Sice Well-Known Member

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    WA has a reasonable force policy with regards to dealing with home intruders.
     
  14. York

    York Finance Broker Business Member

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    Under section 418(2) the NSW Crimes Act 1900, a person is not guilty of an offence if they were:

    1. Defending themselves or someone else

    2. Preventing or ending unlawful deprivation of liberty of themselves or someone else

    3. Defending their property from being taken unlawfully, destroyed, damaged or interfered with

    4. Preventing criminal trespass to any land or to remove a person committing criminal trespass

    However, self-defence is not available if the person has either intentionally or recklessly caused death for above reasons three and four.

    And even if you are protecting yourself or someone else, the actions you take must a reasonable response to the threat as you perceive it.

    This means that:

    • You must believe that there is a threat,
    • Your belief must be on reasonable grounds, and
    • Your response must be reasonable to that threat.
     
  15. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member

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    exactly, too early to pass judgement.

    just last week someone was beaten severely by a homeowner and his neighbour because they thought he was trying to break in. turns out he was just drunk; had been dropped off 1 street away from home by the cab driver by mistake and was stumbling around looking for his house.
     
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  16. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of a friend who went into the wrong building. It was one of those modern day towers that are all built identically and internally they are indistinguishable from the other.
     
  17. Newyproperty

    Newyproperty Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily.

    lethal actions may be reasonable in some circumstances. If you get into a fight with an intruder you mat need to kill the person to stop them.

    I would always avoid confronting an intruder unless it was absolutely necessary.

    I doubt this guy will get convicted of murder.
     
  18. twobobsworth

    twobobsworth Well-Known Member

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    More to the story as they were refused bail. If it was just an average Joe in claimed self defence they would of been granted bail as they are not a threat to society.

    If I'm a robber I'm not breaking into a run down crack house occupied by two men.
     
    Last edited: 28th Mar, 2016
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  19. larrylarry

    larrylarry Well-Known Member

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    I can only comment when I have the police brief of evidence. ;)
     
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  20. drg86

    drg86 Well-Known Member

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    Homeowner faces murder charge after attacking intruder

    So he was 'placed in a headlock and detained'. When police arrived he was alive and transported to the John.

    Will see what details come out of this, but would hate to see a murder conviction result for the young man.