QLD Logan buying guide

BG missing you back on Logan thread and loving it when you keep me on track just like this...

In this Logan post, we mean business but occasionally we talk what we had for breakfast

What else can people make money in Logan?

 

Thanks @Beanie Girl for clearing that up for me. Yeah I was a little confused, I now understand

 

Corner blocks are interesting, Tranquilo
Even if the corner block falls below 700m, there are possibilities for the auxiliary unit to have 2 bedrooms + a study because of the calculation of 'equivalent density ratios'

Correct if I am wrong here, RR (I just referred back to your Somersoft posts to get my thinking straight on this which was kinda fun )

Young Bull's corner block of 994m is very interesting as it is firstly a corner block but secondly the land size is reaching 1000m.
But just applying 2 methodologies -
'equivalent density ratios' and
'corner blocks' for YB's size of land

Equivalent dwellings
The number of dwellings calculated and represented by the equivalent dwelling ratio. This ratio is a way to calculate dwelling yield based on an
equivalence factor. For the purposes of the planning scheme the following ratios are used:
(a) a one bedroom dwelling equals 0.5 equivalent dwellings;
(b) a two bedroom dwelling equals 0.7 equivalent dwellings;
(c) a dwelling with three or more bedrooms equals 1 equivalent dwelling.

<end snippet>

Corner blocks have 28.5 equivalent dwellings per hectare
Regular blocks have 20.0 equivalent dwellings per hectare

So Young Bull's block can have dual occupancy (full house, not auxiliary unit) because it is a corner block and is at least 700m or larger

So according to the calculation: -
994 x 28.5/10 000
= 2.8329

The existing house is counted as 1.0 equivalent dwelling which leaves
1.8329 equivalent dwellings for the rest of Young Bull's land
which will give a possible 3 or 4 bedder house
and a 2 bedroom auxiliary unit which can be attached or detached to this new dwelling
(Note the 2 bedroom auxiliary unit cannot be sold separately from this new dwelling)

This can be all on one title - dual occupancy, 1 title
or strata-titled later on and sold off separately or keep 1, sell 1

I think infra fees of 22-28K apply, DA fees, council application fee, possible council contribution fee for construction of separate driveway

Young Bull and Retire Rich101, what do you think of this logic?
I'm thinking of how to maximize the build without paying the subdivision fee yet have a smashing product to sell or keep whichever way you want it

 

Wow @Beanie Girl and @RetireRich101 You guys are a power of knowledge. It pays to ask some old bulls who's been around these paddocks how its done.. Greatly appreciated
Couple of questions regarding the Secondary Dwelling,
*From my understanding on LCC new planning scheme and website. The secondary dwelling if not annexed has to be rented by the same households? Have i miss understood this...
*If the Subdivision costs are around $55-$70,000 would the infra,D.A fees, council application fee, strata title fee ect equate to close to this for the secondary dwelling? And if so is it worth the saving for one title? And would the resale value of the strata titled new dwelling be in relation to a house/annexed on its own title.

Regarding @RetireRich101 enquiry with just being under the 1000m2 for a 1 into 2 lot Subdivision. I am able to with a small fee make a application to apply under the old superseeded scheme for 12 months as of last May which would make it code assesable rather than impact. My plan was to wait for a couple of years but this change has forced my hand earlier. Im only at the early stages of D.A so wondering also with whatever the best option is either way i would need to proceed with the D.A or should i be putting a halt to it while i work through if the secondary dwelling option is better suited and $?

 

I am not sure what you meant 'secondary dwelling if not annexed'. In a typical configuration under the new planning where there is a existing dwelling, you can build an annexed as attached/detached that can be rented out to seperate household. In all your possible configuration I could think of, the dwelling you will be constructing can be rented out to seperate house hold.
One condition that I could think of is: you chose option 2 about, ( before reconfigure 1 into 2 subdivision) that is to build a main + 2bed in your vacant land. Even Logan council permits to you build a dual income dwelling on the vacant land, I believe they will not allow you to rente to seperate household for the new dwelling+2bed.

BY Secondary dwelling, I think you mean dual occupancy(seperate title). Is that correct? I am not the exact cost of the difference between the 2. That is something you need to ascertain.
For me, if there is only a difference between 10-15k, I would prefer the 'reconfigure 1 into 2' option. If gives me the option to sell of vacant land if the sky does fall. And it may give you option to build dual income dwelling on the reconfigured land that can be rented out to seperate household.

yes there is a difference between old and new planning. I believe for a regular block ( non corner) 800m2, you can apply the option of dual occupancy (seperate title) under old title. And I believe deadline is May 2016 to submit the app under old planning..
I think the latter situation is dependant on personal situation. In few years, if Brisbane does rise and boom, it is difficult to find a builder if u decide to build then

 

I believe Young Bull is referring to Auxiliary Unit option, different council regions have different rules in regards to renting these out.

Logan City Council:

• Be withing 20 meters of the main building
• Not have their own laundry
• Be used by the one household group
• LCC intent is that these units are not to be leased out on there own tenancy agreements

BCC, Redlands, GCC, and Moreton Bay are all bound by the same ruling

The Ipswich plan does not dictate that the auxiliary unit must be used by the one household group.

 

Just to clarify Sean ( or for others that is new to Logan or would like to invest in Logan LGA)

Pre LCC planning (before May 2015) above is correct. Even back then, owner's were building aux unit option per the council requirement. They just hide or not connect the plumbings for the laundry during the approval, but connect them once approved. They can workaround the 1 household lease, just like the queenslander dual living etc.

Post LCC planning (adapted in May 2015), it takes away all these problems. The now call it "Dual occupancy (auxiliary unit)"
This Logan Dual occupancy (auxiliary unit) can be:

• Leased out to 2 separate house hold, seperate metered.
  
• It can be up to 70m2 ( 100m2 for 1000m2 land)
• Does not attract a infrastructure fee ( for now)

IMO, the Dual occupancy (auxiliary unit) in Logan is quiet good, compared to other QLD Council

These comparison could be wrong, but...

• BCC planning adapted 2014 - allows similar build BUT can not be leased out to separate household.
• Ipswich, though can be leased to separate household , recently revised maximum to 50m2. This size is way too small for 2 bed, hence yield is compromised.
• I believe other council follows similar to BCC, that you can't legally rented out to 2 seperate households.

 

Thanks again @RetireRich101 & @Beanie Girl.
When i say secondary dwelling it is different to a annexed unit. I went onto the LCC website and it states;

*SECONDARY DWELLING
-Is used in conjunction with the primary home
-Must be occupied by persons who form the one househould.
Therefore my understanding of this is that it cant be separately rented out unlike the "Auxillery Unit" (70m2 2 bed)

The new logan city council website explains this well. Also there is a link (someone might be able to link this as i'm unable) on the LCC website "An introduction to auxillery units and secondary dwellings". It is a bit hard to find but once there it shows clearly what you can and can not do with diagrams and examples given in images and writing. Quite thorough and clear. Go to Planning and building and click down from "dwelling' then onto secondary and auxillery dwellings. Hopefully you will find the link there.

I also found that i was unaware of that rates apply for auxillery dwellings (granny flat) to what extent, i'm not sure. Surely it cant be as much as the main dwelling?
I also noted once a annexed or secondary dwelling is positioned that a subdivision cannot take place.

All points so far do make me believe that the 1 into 2 lot subdivision with a duel occ build on the newly appointed land is the way to go although this option would be the most costly. Im sure the banks would see this as the best option also.. Its funny, i went to loganlea finding a corner lot (750m2) with the idea of putting a granny flat on. Got cold feet (which i regretted) as it was my first, pulled out and have ended up getting a development block. I've certaintly thrown myself in the deep end first up. I find you guys helpful trying to keep my head above water so thankyou... I cant afford to stuff up...

Sorry @seanbrissy i stole your thread for personal guidence as i enjoy the Logan threads as much as anyone and would like to see this continue for all of our knowledge and thoughts moving forward. So i will get back to talking logan..

I would like to add with the suburb of Marsden that there are confirmed plans of the "Marsden Shopping Centre" as reported back in April/May tripling from its current size with a $60 million development. Im unaware of though when this will start from a construction view. I see the local agents have already added this to there spriuking of the area with there listings and where the property is positioned in relation to this new development. Have you heard much regarding this and to what effect it will have for properties in the area % wise. @Michael_X may have some views on this as well. Thanks again for letting the Youngbull have a run around in these prosperous paddocks... Cheers

 

What is the average increase in rates, water, etc on secondary granny flat dwelling. The granny flat companies sell the dream on this higher return but you got an extra tenant, PM fees and other outgoings not disclosed. Crunch the final numbers and it isn't always that spectacular coupled with the fact that main house don't have a nice back yard for the kids anymore (resulting in less rent for that)

 

OK, a few comments on Marsden and Crestmead so I will bite

The Marsden Shopping Centre has been purchased by the same mob who own Loganholme Hyperdome, hence the excitement amongst the locals. It's at the proposal stage so nothing set.

My tips on the two suburbs

Marsden

- The northern section of Marsden close to Scrubby Creek floods, even parts of Second Ave all the way down to Macararthy Rd, so please check the flood maps
- Prefer the pocket closer to the Marsden shops at Chambers Flat Rd and Tamarind St, there are a few streets there with blocks on two street frontages, for example Bluegum Drive, Wattle St, Macaranga St. Mostly large blocks on 1,000 sqm and around the $450,000 mark.
- If you go west towards Fourth Ave, you get more vacant land and newer developments so tend to stay away from here. It's also further from the shops

Pros

- Better quality tenants compared to Logan, there are generally more home owners in this area
- Less competition, 4114 has had alot of interest and it's only starting to radiate out to suburbs like Marsden, Crestmead etc
- As it's more owner occupier, I felt short term growth could be decent. The locals haven't started buying yet, so when they do it should have some nice growth ahead

Cons

- Further away from Brisbane city. You are looking at 35km from CBD, where as the tip of Woodridge is only 23km
- You need a car to get around, don't have trains like in Logan
- Less infrastructure & shops, the shopping centre will help

Crestmead

- Alot of 3/1/1 Brick and tile, which are now asking for $280,000 to $300,000 and only rents for $320-300 per week, so hard to get the numbers to work. You get some highsets but many.
- Prefer the central pocket around Waratah Drive, you have a small local shopping centre there. If you go further out to the edges of Crestmead you get newer developments

Pros and cons are very similar to Marsden. The main difference is Marsden has larger blocks and getting a new shopping centre and Crestmead has more brick and tiles.

I would buy in either as long as the numbers work.

Hope this helps,
Michael

 

This one 2 PAULINE ST Marsden Qld 4132 - House for Sale #121427678 - realestate.com.au is cheap then but agent won't show the internals.

 

Prices are cheaper for those properties closer to Scrubby Creek.

Cheers,
Michael

 

Knowing Logan to this detailed level of knowledge, you're becoming a scary X

 

King of Logan. You're not bad yourself RR.

 

I love the dev and zoning in Logan council, and alot of Agents know nothing about it or don't know how to sell it....

wider investor are interested in buy n hold in this area, because it has the capital growth, yield etc...

most of the poster here replied are done with buying in this area. they have bought enough and patiently waiting.. most of these posters are genuine to help out if they can...

 

It's because LCC doesn't have much more to grow now compared to more than 12 months ago or they are just too many investors? I think bargains are just harder to come by.

 

I think it was Steven R that named him 'Lord of Logan'. Ah...what a title

 

Logan has moved from 12 months ago but I wouldn't say LCC doesn't have much to grow. Medians are barely up from 2010. Still a bit of fuel left.

 

it only increased 15-20% in the last 2 years so I don't think that's a big increase. I guess I am spoilt with the last Sydney growth

 

That sounds great, hopefully the ripple effects can also be enjoyed by Park Ridge property owner too .