LIC & LIT Listed Investment Companies (LICs) 2019

Discussion in 'Shares & Funds' started by Nodrog, 1st Jan, 2019.

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  1. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Mate what’s your current view on China? Still somewhat negative similar to the views of Swenson / Bernstein? To be honest I’m feeling increasingly negative as time goes on given the path they’re taking. Maybe I’m being too suspicious / pessimistic?

    But it does have me agreeing with you that holding EM as opposed to Asia only might be preferable. Although cap weighting would likely see China increasingly dominate the EM index over time. That is provided they don’t get booted out of it depending on the path they take.
     
  2. The Falcon

    The Falcon Well-Known Member

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    Negative personally. However things change, and that can happen quickly.

    Part of accepting indexing is putting aside hunches, stories and opinions regarding the unknowable future and saying “I don’t know” and relying on the market to set the price.
    Events of the last year have further cemented that idea for me.
     
  3. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Beautifully stated oh wise one:).
     
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  4. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    VGE and VAE have similar emerging Asia exposure @ around 55%.

    The difference is with VAE you get 45% developed Asia whilst VGE has only 15%. The remainder of VGE is rest of the world emerging.

    I like VAE in combination with VGS. The developed Asia you pick up (Samsung – Sth Korea etc) is absent from VGS.

    I don’t mind missing out on the non-Asian emerging by not holding VGE.

    All just personal preferences. VGS gets most of the diversification benefits under the belt, the rest is fiddling around the edges.

    VGE already has more China exposure than VAE.
     
  5. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    @dunno, thanks for the insight. I admit to being out of touch with EM / Asia given I don’t hold or follow them much. Should have checked the facts rather than trusting my memory. EM / Asia is a bit too much excitement for this boring old retiree.

    I assume you still have VVLU in your international portfolio? Are you finding the rebalancing opportunities you hoped for? I’m still surprised how low this Fund’s FUM is here and in the US. All indications are it’s a well designed index.
     
  6. dunno

    dunno Well-Known Member

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    Yes still have VVLU.

    It continues to underperform. (reletive strength {price} vs VGS below)

    upload_2019-1-8_13-31-40.png

    Accumulating more of it than VGS accordingly.

    The first criteria of being a suitable rebalancing candidate is being met. Periods of underperformance – Only time will tell if it has future periods of out-performance and becomes a good rebalancing asset or it just stays an inferior investment.

    As far as size of Fund goes - it might pick up some more interest once growth has run its course and historical return followers finally have something to like about value once again. Or maybe it will become a failed product befor that happens - that is a real risk.
     
    Last edited: 8th Jan, 2019
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  7. oracle

    oracle Well-Known Member

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    VGE - Top 10 holdings

    China - 34.7%
    Taiwan - 14.1%
    India - 11.7%
    Brazil - 8.5%
    South Africa - 6.8%

    Thailand - 4.0%
    Russia - 3.8%
    Malaysia - 3.2%
    Mexico - 3.0%
    Indonesia - 2.4%
    ----------------------
    Total - 92.2%


    VAE - Top 10 Holdings

    China - 33.3%
    Korea - 15.4%
    Taiwan - 12.8%
    Hong Kong - 12.1%
    India - 11.7%
    Singapore - 4.0%
    Thailand - 3.7%
    Malaysia - 3.2%
    Indonesia - 2.4%
    Philippines - 1.3%
    -----------------------------
    Total - 99.9%

    Like you I like VAE composition more than VGE.

    Cheers,
    Oracle.
     
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  8. Pleep

    Pleep Well-Known Member

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    Obviously past performance no indicator etc. but the HK version of VAE gives you a slightly longer performance history than the ASX listed one. This is a chart from a few months ago, goes back to 2014 I believe.
    Don’t have a distribution history unfortunately.
    7A1F51DB-FBF7-46FA-A7BA-83E5256332FC.png
     
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  9. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    What on earth are you doing sullying this thread with ETF chat? Be off with you.

    SK scurries away quietly knowing, probably much to the angst of the forums owner, conversations oft go astray - and there's not a thing which can really be done about it.

    Now back to LIC's - the proper investors product choice - the darn things seem to be going up lately dang it. Easier decisions when they go the other way.
     
  10. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Oops, yes I just realised this is a LIC thread. It’s all @Julian ’s fault, go stand in the corner for an hour you naughty boy. Shame, shame, shame.

    29A8F60F-4FDF-48DE-8273-614911DE575D.jpeg
     
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  11. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    @SatayKing rather than trying to decide what LICs to buy I thought you’d be busy trying to decide on which pair of these to buy:cool::

    455D23B2-33D0-4B83-B9CD-794BD1E68C11.jpeg
     
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  12. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    :p

    Plus I'm set with the number holdings I now have so the question isn't which LIC to buy but when. My attitude is now one which wants increasing income (the why I don't know really as I have plenty) as opposed to CG - although that is good too I suppose - I don't feel I have the FOMO when prices increase. More one of Damn it's getting expensive to buy at the yield on offer.

    Still, I do admit I ain't an automaton so it's difficult at times.
     
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  13. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of income the way DJW is headed I was starting to think around $3 might be a possibility yet again as has happened throughout it’s history. SK would that entice you back into it?
    Trouble is given the income is strongly reliant on options trading one can never be too confident about the dividend.

    Updated price chart with a sinister looking downtrend still in place? Crystal balls out please. Turning point at around $3 or before? Or perhaps worse? Then again you never know, the board might announce a surprise increase in dividends??

    7BEF13B9-DFD3-40F6-AB2D-F9B44DFA3030.jpeg
     
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  14. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    I haven't looked at DJW since it went from the portfolio. There are the negatives to which you have referred @Nodrog and I think it should also be in the back of a potential investor's mind the higher the yield is generally associated with higher risk. In my view I wouldn't be waiting for capital growth if I were to invest.

    However, certainly tempting from an income perspective but, but, but it would require me to stray from my unwritten decision on the number of holdings. With that in mind it's a No for me.
     
  15. Nodrog

    Nodrog Well-Known Member

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    And with a higher than average franking component plus a possible Labor Gov’t threat to same it’s a NO from me also. Although the main reason is it’s not part of our written plan. And there is steadfast determination to stick with the plan to avoid mistakes of the past.

    Like you with more income than required I don’t see the need to chase the more volatile income streams. And although income is more important to us than capital I’m not enthused at putting capital at risk unecessarily given the history of DJW. That said the risk of that happening at these levels is much lower now historically. But a growing dividend stream is typically accompanied by capital growth over time NOT with the price chart back where it was a couple of decades ago! Stating the obvious so nothing new to most here of course.

    Waiting for Brouhaha Craft Brewery courtesy bus to pick us up at midday for lunch and beer. Make that plural tense:

    Brouhaha Brewery - Sunshine Coast Hinterland Independent Craft Brewery

    Incredible venue, food and beer. So fortunate to have this less than 5 mins drive from our home. Although the courtesy bus is much preferred:).
     
    Last edited: 9th Jan, 2019
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  16. oddshapes

    oddshapes Well-Known Member

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    I'm proud to announce that after an excruciating two month process of getting a trust and bank account set-up, I've started my path to financial Independence with the purchase of Whitefield this morning.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. oddshapes

    oddshapes Well-Known Member

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    OK I'll admit, I did take a look to see where WHF finished today. :p I never plan on selling (as per my investment plan) but couldn't help myself. Hmm up 1 cent, maybe I should cash in...... :confused:
     
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  18. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    Normal. I've found it is very difficult not to look but I'm getting better at the task. However, I did look today and am most disgruntled. They are going in the wrong direction presently. Where are you Oh God Of Bears?
     
  19. Speede

    Speede Well-Known Member

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    So many dislike....WAM...reason?
     
  20. oddshapes

    oddshapes Well-Known Member

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    Haha, glad its normal, it really is different when you have your hard earned 'on the line' as opposed to a beautifully formatted investment plan document.

    As a seasoned investor with 1.5 weeks experience, I too am disgruntled. I have a lot more buying to do. Where is all this Brexit and US/China trade wars effect on our market?
     
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