Life, as a criminal sentance ?

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Stoffo, 27th Apr, 2019.

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Life, is 25 years enough ?

This poll will close on 26th Jun, 2038 at 9:52 PM.
  1. If determined by a court it should be the minimum, not a reduced sentance

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. A "LIFE" is far more than 25 years today

    4 vote(s)
    19.0%
  3. Life being 25 years should Absolutely be reviewed

    5 vote(s)
    23.8%
  4. People make mistakes and should be given a second chance

    5 vote(s)
    23.8%
  5. When 100% guilty, video or DNA, the sentance should be for remaining life

    7 vote(s)
    33.3%
  6. The jails and legal system cost far too much already....

    1 vote(s)
    4.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, honestly, this sort of thing has been researched to death - we don't exactly need more anecdotal examples to inform our sentencing system.

    I wouldn't either. But I suspect neither of us type of person who would be doing committing ether offence in the first place. Criminal sentencing laws need to take into account what sort of person that is, and how to best weigh up the other relevant considerations such as personal deterrence, safety of the community and prospects of rehabilitation.

    You seem to be only considering general deterrence...
     
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  2. Shogun

    Shogun Well-Known Member

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  3. Ryan23

    Ryan23 Well-Known Member

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    Well yes i think there should be a high priority to the victim of crime, how do you think victims of seriouse crime should be treated? And it it not revenge, its punishment. like i stated earlier, yes there is plenty of research on rehabilitation and this may be great for minor offending but we are talking Life sentences here. In the capital punishment days, they were experts too at the time and things got changed, maybe its time for another change.
     
  4. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you'll never get a unanimous verdict from 12 of our peers as to whether it's an answer or not.

    It could be argued that each case is different, and probably rightly so, but some are so heinous that extra judicial (a term I'm hesitant to use, lest it be taken out of context) sentences might be considered to be in order.

    After reading something like this (it's quite long, but well worth your time...):-

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...kelly-s-kindness-mission-20190423-p51gdf.html

    the "offence", as stated in a court or law, doesn't also encapsulate the ensuing devastation that is wrought upon the victims, and their loved ones.

    You readers can decide whether or not you consider that justice has been done (or not).
     
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  5. TSK

    TSK Well-Known Member

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    You mean like drug trafficking, political protesting, adultery, male on male sex, blasphemy etc.
    it only takes a apathetic and ignorant public to vote in a government that starts to make new laws about what should be punished by death...
     
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  6. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Those are all reasons why we should allow euthanasia.

    ->

    Is it though? What statistics or research do you have that shows it actually deters people? Does the US have lower rates of auto theft compared with other countries with more lenient sentencing? Does this apply to all states in the US or just some? I'm interested in what do you actually know about this.

    For what crimes? Any increased burden of proof for the death penalty? What are your views on the many documented cases of innocent people being executed for crimes they didn't commit?

    I'm honestly not sure if this is trolling or serious. If serious, as geoffw has pointed out maybe do some research about the US justice system and how their punitive brand results in absurdly high incarceration and recidivism rates. Private prisons in the US have no incentive to rehabilitate inmates - why try to reform a potential future customer?
     
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  7. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    This is an interesting article. Norway has one of the lowest imprisonment rates in the world - and also one of the lowest recidivism rates.

    In reference to the topic of the thread, the longest sentence is 21 years, but a sentence can be extended by five years if it's determined that a prisoner has not been rehabilitated. A lot of work is out into making sure that a prisoner is able to become a useful member of society on their release.
    .
    Why Norway's prison system is so successful
     
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  8. JetstreamVic

    JetstreamVic Well-Known Member

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    For drug trafficking yes - For the others, no.

    @shorty - For me the crimes would be the particularity heinous ones. Without the benefit of sitting down and having a good think about all of them, they would start in the region of Terrorism, Murder, Infanticide, Drug Trafficking, Rape etc.

    As for the burden of proof, it should be unanimous by all jurors and all judges (I am thinking appeal court setup). If anyone thinks not guilty, then the option of death sentence is taken off the table.

    However, the world has changed since the days where innocent people have been found guilty.

    I struggle to think how a jury could find someone like a, James Gargasoulas, Martin Bryant, Arthur Freeman - Even what recently occurred in New Zealand.

    I am not saying there would be a huge uptake and we would be knocking everyone off, however for the people listed above, the fear of a wrongful conviction could never exist.

    These are monsters that can never be rehabilitated.

    Given the cost is above $100,000 per year, and you think about the people who have listed the crimes I listed above - Why should we (the tax payers), fork out so much money for them?

    I would much rather better schools, more police/fireys/ambos.

    Even the reduction to our nations debt.
     
  9. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, because in the US it's actually more expensive to execute someone that imprison them for life, partly due to the legal costs for appeals - which you can't really dispense with.

    If you could guarantee 100% that a person is guilty of a particularly heinous crime, maybe you can make a case for capital punishment but in reality the justice system is rarely black and white and everything is subject to interpretation. It then becomes a slippery slope.
     
  10. Ryan23

    Ryan23 Well-Known Member

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    Cant argue with the statistics on Norway, However even they still have actuall “life sentences” I believe they can indefinitly contiue to extend the sentence by 5 years if justified. I do not think even Norway is going to let this guy out in 26 years:

    Anders Behring Breivik - Wikipedia
     
  11. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    And that seems like a reasonable argument @shorty , but on the other hand, what poster in this (very interesting, due to the varied and nuanced opinions) thread could also find it reasonable and humane that someone (described in a prior post as with personality disorders due to their awful crimes) could be locked in a small room for 80-95% of their day for 25 years or so?

    I suppose that it's a difficult argument, the resolution of which will never get unanimous support.

    I have a certain view, related to simplicity, but I also extend to any reader that my judicial experience is minimal when it comes to established sentencing procedures.
     
  12. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Now that is a very interesting point of view Ted.
     
  13. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    Why not? The victims family cop life sentences. Why should the murderer get a nice life to enjoy at end of sentence?
     
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  14. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Because it doesn't bring the victim back and its worse for society.
     
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  15. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    [
    How is a murderer locked away in prison worse for the community than having a murderer walking amongst us? I would think that the community could only be a safer place if it there is a guarantee that the murderer can never reoffend. Your forgetting that violent people are never rehabilitated. Have you not seen the rates of reoffending for domestic violence? Only way community safety can be guaranteed against crimes from reoffenders is if those that are known offenders don’t get second chances. That’s why murder is murder and manslaughter is manslaughter. That’s how you decide who is unlikely to reoffend and who isn’t.
     
  16. Grazer

    Grazer Member

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    And here lies the crux of the problem. All of these things listed are reactive and no where near enough effort is put into the preventive actions such as mental health programs.

    By the time someone has committed murder, its too late. I'm in favour of removing them from society, by whatever means costs tax payers the least. . .
     
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  17. Ross 355

    Ross 355 Well-Known Member

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    Well it keeps them from reoffending doesnt it??
     
  18. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    What I find odd is that, for example the guy who was convicted of war crimes for killing a heap of people wasnt jailed because he was 90+ years old, and deemed too old

    I would expedite him going to jail because he would suffer minimally for his crimes given that he wouldn't live too long

    Lucky I'm not a law maker
     
  19. Ross 355

    Ross 355 Well-Known Member

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    It's always sad when you see criminals get caught very late in life because they never really receive what they should of.even IF they are jailed it's easy time for them.tucked away from any danger.
     
  20. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    I remain confused and disappointed with the system :(

    How is it that someone can admit to stabbing their partner (and have several cigarettes while watching them bleed out before calling 000) gets only 20years !

    While someone who did designs/drawings/modifications for missiles that were sent overseas (that may not have ever been used) also gets 20 years ?

    Any first offender gets made an example of, yet the repeat offender (lost cause) gets a slap on the wrist.........

    Then, there are those that claim impaired decision making ability due to drugs !
    If you chose to take the drugs then you accept the chance that you may stuff up, and when you do you should expect the full force of the law.
    (If you drink drive and crash, you don't get to blame the alcohol ........)
     
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