Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Lest We Forget

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Random Username, 11th Nov, 2015.

  1. Random Username

    Random Username Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    239
    Location:
    NSW
  2. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,113
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I think the government has forgotten, because they keep getting us involved in more wars overseas.
     
  3. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,716
    Location:
    Mornington Peninsula
    They haven't forgotten, and it isn't that simple unfortunately.

    Someone on the radio today was trying to cast guilt on the Gubb for going over to kill Isis folks and so on...."Should we really be trying to kill folks who are trying to kill us?" or words to that effect.

    So; we should simply live and let live; with these folks?

    No amount of kumbaya is going to stop that crazed mob from doing what they do.

    They need to be exterminated, and it has to be a world effort.
     
  4. Corey Batt

    Corey Batt Finance Strategist Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,167
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    And let's not forget how ISIS came into existence - using our militaries to destabilise two countries AND handing ISIS the very weapons they use.

    ISIS simply wouldn't exist if we didn't intervene in the region like we had.
     
    Doncossack and WattleIdo like this.
  5. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,113
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Sending a small token effort just to appease the yankee overlords so they can be seen as not going it alone, puts us all at more risk of attacks by extremists back home. It's silly.
     
  6. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,716
    Location:
    Mornington Peninsula
    What; so before any western dudes went in and caused a ruckus, all was heaven on Earth over in the sandhills?

    Come on; those joints have been throwing knives at each other for thousands of years.

    How many hundreds of thousands of his own folks did Sadam kill?for one example.

    Now they merely have other targets (us) to throw the knives at...they hate the WEST. It wouldn't matter if Aus sent folks or not - we would still end up as a target with these imbeciles.

    The Isis/Nazis/Sadams etc of the world - we from the West don't create these people....but; they do have to be stopped.

    Who is going to do it?
     
  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker and strategist Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Location:
    Melbourne, Nationwide
    With Corey I visited the Australian War Memorial last Sunday. Some interesting things came up (forgive me if the stats are false, they came up during the tour).

    * Australia currently has a military presence in 5 different countries around the world.
    * Australia has been involved in over 120 military conflicts over roughly the last 130 years. The most significant conflict we have not attended was the Falklands war.
    * Australia and sovereign territories has only been under direct threat for about 6 weeks in total in WWII.
    * Australians show up very quickly in these conflicts. We were the first country to show up in Korea after the USA deployed.

    The tour guide asked the question why we do this, it wasn't answered.

    * In WWI approximately 1 in 6 Australians were deployed (in numerous roles, based on my mental arithmetic from the numbers quoted). I don't recall what the WWII stats were, whilst lower, it was still a shockingly high percentage of the population at the time. The social effects of so many dead, wounded or suffering from PTSD after WWI was staggering.
    * According to the Australian Army website, 100 Victoria Crosses have been awarded to Australians, 1358 have been awarded in total. Post WWII 15 have been awarded in total, 8 went to Australians (4 in Vietnam, 4 in Afghanistan).

    Whilst many of us don't like to think of Australia this way, it's fairly apparent that we are very much a warrior nation. We're quick to show up, and often amongst the last to leave.
     
    Doncossack and Azazel like this.
  8. jim1964

    jim1964 Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    674
    Location:
    At tha beach
    We were the first country to show up in Korea after the USA deployed.

    I heard a comment today that Australia is the pacific aircraft carrier to the USA.
     
  9. Corey Batt

    Corey Batt Finance Strategist Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,167
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    They sure have - and the periods where there have been the highest stability have been under some of these unfavourable dictators. Yes they're not fuzzy wuzzy pretty characters - but they kept countries with multiple opposing parties (who wanted to kill each) together. Heck, it wasn't even that long ago when I remember Syria was on travel tv shows as the next place to travel, now it's a war zone thanks to active destabilisation.

    Don't forget - we did not enter Iraq under the role of solving humanitarian injustice, it was solely under the pretense (supposedly) to remove any WMD's. What happened instead was the removal of the only government keeping a region from ripping itself a part, leaving a vacuum for some of the worst people to come about in generations.

    Fundamentally there are some nice simple facts:

    • ISIS received military assistance from the United States and the UK, including weaponry and information to try destabilise Syria
    • Sectarian violence was LOWER under Saddam and Assad's regimes, with well over double the number of civilian causalities in the last three years, than the last three decades under said regimes
    • We've done the same thing repeatedly before - funding Al-Qaeda, heck even Vietnamese communist rebels. You name the enemy, we funded them.
    You cannot remove a government actor which is keeping stability in contentious region, and not be surprised when it goes to hell in a hand basket. Sure it's all well and good to want the Middle East to run under a democratically elected, non corrupt government - but history has shown that you cannot thrust ideology onto people at the edge of a sword.
     
    Doncossack and Azazel like this.
  10. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,817
    Location:
    Central West NSW
    All true.
    Should've asked @Bayview along. :)
     
  11. Bayview

    Bayview Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,716
    Location:
    Mornington Peninsula
    Lots of very ordinary places are touted as places to go for a holiday. Means nothing. One place is good one decade, terrible the next.

    That can be said about many Countries - and even parts of Countries - over periods of time and windows of time....Croatia before their Civil war for example.

    Australia showing up to "other people's fights" has many reasons for why we do it....and I'd wager all honourable.

    Granted; the reasons can sometimes be construed as misguided - in hindsight. But Aus intentions are good ones.

    No doubt; one of them is to support our military and trade allies such as USA and UK, etc....and we would be the first to scream help from these folks if we were under attack from an outside mob.

    Another is because Aussies have a strong sense of right and wrong/good and bad.

    However; would you rather have a world where the bad guys are free to roam around and do what they feel, or a world where some Countries have the resources and - thankfully - the firepower to intervene?

    You can victimise the bad guys all you like, and portray us and the US etc as bullies and the catalyst for evil, and insensitive to refugees and so forth; all the usual Civ Lib guff.

    But at the end of the day; they (Isis and similar) are and always were/will be bad guys and only need an excuse.

    Many folks have condemned the (supposed lack of) humanitarian efforts towards refugees from places like Syria etc recently - how insensitive and so on we are and other Countries are.. Apparently one (or more) of these gunman had a Syrian passport on them.

    The world has changed folks - the bad guys now have the capabilities to inflict large-scale and swift atrocities on innocent folks who have nothing to do with anything.

    Obviously, this problem is far more complex than dropping a few bombs on the bad guys and so forth.

    There has to be a world-wide concerted effort to re-educate the young.

    So; what are their religious leaders ( and communities) doing about that?

    If you want to cast some blame; look there.

    The silence from these leaders is deafening.
     
    Last edited: 15th Nov, 2015
    jim1964 and Peter_Tersteeg like this.