Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

Legal Tip 114: Murder and Inheritance

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Terry_w, 15th Jan, 2016.

  1. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    What would happen if A left everything in his will be B and B then killed A. Could B inherit A's estate?

    Nope. This is an old law as children have been killing parents for centuries as have spouses killing each other. This piece of law is known as 'the forfeiture rule'.

    There is a recent case, Pike v Pike [2015] QSC 134, where one son was charged with manslaughter of his mother 1 month after she changed her will leaving her entire estate to him. The second son would have missed out, but for the forfeiture rule. This rule was summarised in the case as:

    http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/2015/QSC15-134.pdf

    It also applies to Joint Tenancies. A and B own a property as joint tenants, A kills B, A would take the whole property because of survivorship. But the law of equity prevents this and converts this into a tenancy in common 50/50. So the murderer A would still be entitled to 50% of the property but the other 50% would belong to the victims estate and pass via the will or intestacy laws.
     
    Ian Macleod, Scott No Mates and MTR like this.
  2. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    981
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Alright, back to Plan B.
     
    marty998, Vixs, No Probs and 9 others like this.
  3. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,809
    Location:
    Central West NSW
    I wonder what stats there are on kids knocking off their parents and spouses doing each other in? Do you know @Terry_w ?
     
  4. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,472
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thought this was going to be instructions on the best way to take someone out and get a phat stack.
     
    Magnet and MTR like this.
  5. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    It seems there are less than 300 murders in Australia each year.
    Australian Institute of Criminology - Homicide statistics

    In law school the told us we would probably never come across a murder matter, but I had been involved in 3 (matters not murders) in the first 2 years of being a lawyer.
     
    WattleIdo likes this.
  6. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,569
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    If A leaves 100% to their son B, and B is an only child, and B kills A, then what?
     
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    B will be presumed to have predeceased A. So it would pass according to the will or intestacy laws if the will doesn't cover it.
     
  8. D.T.

    D.T. Adelaide Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,569
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Predeceased? So follow's B's will?
     
  9. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    no. it will be as if B doesn't exist.
     
    legallyblonde likes this.
  10. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,095
    Location:
    NSW
    So if B has children the estate can be passed to the children?

    News on people killing each other and family member is everyday thing back home. Like "soñ kill dad for 50c (in oz currency)"

    @jaybean treats whoever with lots of nice fatty stuff for several years
     
  11. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    No. It will pass via the intestacy laws as if A didn't have a will. It may go to A's grandchildren, but it may not, e.g. if they were married or defacto.
     
  12. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,095
    Location:
    NSW
    I mean if B (son) has children (A's grandchildren) before B murder A. B has no wills.
     
  13. Terry_w

    Terry_w Solicitor, Finance Broker, CTA Business Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,943
    Location:
    Sydney
    Not sure what you mean, but the intestacy laws will apply.
     
  14. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    7,298
    Location:
    Perth, Melbourne, USA
    ... and you will never get away with it, killer always leaves something behind, DNA....
     
  15. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,095
    Location:
    NSW
    I mean B can't have the inheritance, but his children might be able to get it? (Not familiar with intestacy)
     
  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    7,298
    Location:
    Perth, Melbourne, USA
    do you recall the case in Syd where son murdered entire family, mother, father, sister, they were wealthy family.

    Anyway he eventually got caught, the house was sold and the buyers were not told about the murder, they were able to bail out of the contract.

    Sorry that's another story. Some nasty stuff out there
     
    See Change likes this.
  17. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,809
    Location:
    Central West NSW
    Think I saw it on you tube. And remember hearing about it. Is that when they made it a requirement to disclose?

    Shocking to some :eek: ... :cool: not to others.
     
    Last edited: 15th Jan, 2016
  18. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    20th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    981
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Hey Terry do one for pets. Ever since that lady in NYC left millions to her pet and shunned her family I've been curious about the legality around this. I don't plan on doing the same but I will be leaving a bit of money for someone to look after mine.
     
  19. WattleIdo

    WattleIdo renovating Premium Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,809
    Location:
    Central West NSW
    Where's 'back home'? EN?
     
  20. EN710

    EN710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,095
    Location:
    NSW
    Indonesia. Happens a lot in more rural area
     
    WattleIdo likes this.