Legal Obligations?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Crido, 12th Jun, 2020.

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  1. Crido

    Crido Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    I’m wanting to clarify mine (and my PM’s) obligations re the following.

    My tenant Informed us of damp carpet (and some mould). PM sent their plumber and they found it was an issue with the build (3yrs ago). The builder is tending to the repairs, and despite the tenant saying the smell is so bad she is worried for her health, neither the plumber or builder were able to smell anything too bad.

    Our tenant now wants a 50% rent reduction backdated four weeks (to when the issue started) and has said she’ll stop paying rent altogether now until it is repaired.

    PM had previously suggested we drop rent by $20 or $30 in a gesture of goodwill (and in an effort to keep the issue out of the courts). I agreed and offered a $30 Subsidy (backdated), but that’s been rejected.

    Now my question ... where do I stand as landlord (and where does my PM stand) legally?

    What are our obligations?

    I’d have thought, since the unit is clean, safe and habitable, and the repairs are being tended to, I shouldn’t be bullied into a 50% rent reduction, and in fact don’t have to drop the rent at all. But maybe I’m wrong. Or maybe a significant reduction now (and no rent until the repairs are done) is better than the alternative (i.e. going to court).

    Would love some advice.

    Thanks,
    Crido
     
  2. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Ending a tenancy | Residential Tenancies Authority
     
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  3. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    You have hardly given much relevant information about the issues at the property though.

    Damp carpet and mould from build issues? That sounds pretty bad on the face of it.

    How much of the property is affected?
     
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  4. Crido

    Crido Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the grouting between the external bricks wasn't as sealed as it should be, so over the 3yrs since it was constructed (and I'd say especially just recently after a particularly large downpour) water - and white water, not grey or sewerage - has entered the wall, and the carpet in the wardrobe and hard-up along one wall of the bedroom was found to be damp with some mould in the wardrobe piece (which has now been removed). The builder has said that none of the rods on the light-coloured carpet are balck from damp/mould, and if it was a big issue, or the carpet needed replacing, the rods would be black.

    That's all I've been given at this stage.
     
  5. spoon

    spoon Well-Known Member

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    What about if you don't agree to the reduction of rent? What can the tenant do? Take you to court? On what grounds? Looks like you have a difficult tenant who is skillful at getting a discount :(
     
  6. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    So the Tenant is worried about their health but not worried enough that they will accept a 50% in rent reduction to live in the home, LOL!
     
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  7. Crido

    Crido Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly.

    My PM just called after visiting and she can't smell anything or see mould or feel any wet carpet. Said the tenant was keeping the unit very clean and tidy and was nice and friendly, but wouldn't budge from wanting $120/wk off the rent, and will stop paying altogether from next week until the repairs are done. Tenant also told PM that she wants to stay, but if I don't accept those terms, she'll give her notice to vacate (which apparently consumer affairs told her she was within her rights to do - to leave within 2 days, or 7 days or something along those lines.

    Hence, my question ... where do I legally stand in all this?

    My PM has said if we all end-up in court, I have done evrything I could to try to resolve the issue and I wouldn't be out of pocket much - just a dispute fee of $17 or something - but I'd really like to avoid all the drama and just have the repairs done and my tenant maintaining her lease agreement and paying her (full) rent ontime.

    Thoughts?

    Regards,
    Crido
     
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  8. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    Wouldnt avoiding the drama be to just let her leave?
     
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  9. Crido

    Crido Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but is that my best course of action?

    Why should I be out of pocket due to the vacancy that is inevitable while finding another tenant?
     
  10. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd keep the rent she's paid to now, refuse the half price reduction, and hope she leaves.

    Yes, you'll be down a bit, but at $240 a week rent (is that right?), I'd prefer to lose a little and be rid of such a tenant.

    I don't know where you stand legally though. If she takes you tribunal, you can't lose more than her half price for four weeks and nothing from now til it's fixed... surely?

    I doubt she'd move, but if she does... I'd be glad to see the back of her.
     
  11. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    I would say count your blessings and let them leave, but deduct rent from the bond based on your $30/week reduced rate. This wont be the last time you hear from the tenant if they stay.

    Cheers,
    Inertia.
     
  12. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    I thought the tenant was asking for a 50% rent reduction, and that was being refused.
     
  13. jared7825

    jared7825 Well-Known Member

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    I had a not dissimilar issue about ten years ago the last time I rented.

    In the unit about a month into a 6 mic the leases before I moved to my new PPOR.

    After a cyclone large areas of old poor condition iron roof sheet was blown off the unit I was renting. Took a week for the initial repair and during this time a large amount of water leaked in, entire second bedroom was damp, plasterboard was damp, and mould started to grow in the wet plasterboard. Property manager dodged all calls and notifications of the issue, claimed they could not get trades out to look at the issue and it would not be rectified within the lease (I called two suitable people and could get them out in under 2 weeks).

    I asked for rent reduction based in the effect m2 of floor area and was denied, I continued to pay full rent as required but filed with tribunal and was ruled in my favour after a court appearance, the reduction ordered was limited though in time (2 months) as it was deemed unreasonable that it would take close to 6 months to get the job quoted, or repairs commenced.
     
  14. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    This
    "tenant saying the smell is so bad she is worried for her health, neither the plumber or builder were able to smell anything too bad."

    and then this

    "Our tenant now wants a 50% rent reduction backdated four weeks (to when the issue started) and has said she’ll stop paying rent altogether now until it is repaired."

    I just stated the obvious.
     
  15. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Legally there's two potential issues.

    1. Rent reduction because of loss of amenity of the premises. No lessor fault required. Generally calculated as a % of rent reduction proportional to % loss of amenity. No 'waiting period' before this kicks in.

    2. General damages from a breach of a lessor's obligation to repair/maintain the premises. These are calculated based on case law and how culpable the circumstances of the breach is. This probably would be triggered only after a reasonable period has elapsed for a lessor to make good the repairs/maintenance.
     
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  16. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you are suggesting the "obvious" was, but I didn't see the two things as being inconsistent.

    A tenant could be worried enough for their health to avoid using the affected area of the premises, and therefore want a rent reduction. Maybe it affects 50% of the amenity of the rental.
     
  17. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming that they're not using that area, damp carpet doesn't mean you can't use the room, you might be able to avoid walking over that part of the carpet and It's also noted that the Traidies that have visited the place have said it's not that bad. Looks like the OP has tried everything within their power to rectify the problem. I'd tend to think, if the place was that bad that it would a have an ill effect on your health, you wouldn't want to live there at all even if the rent was free.
     
  18. Crido

    Crido Well-Known Member

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    Let me just get one thing clear here for context ... the unit is 3 years old, in impeccable condition, other than this issue. And this “issue” has been noted as a “non-issue” by plumbers, builders and my PM now.

    My PM said there was no evident smell, she couldn’t see ANY mould, or feel/see any wet carpet.

    In my view, it’s a clear case of my tenant asking me for a rent reduction and threatening to stop paying altogether, when neither is warranted.

    Hopefully that sets the scene for you a bit clearer. I’m not after a judgement of who’s right or wrong. Just simply where we all stand on such a matter legally (from all sides).

    Crido
     
  19. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    We had a few mould spots on a ceiling in a house two years ago. It was not bad, but we did get Mould Men in to look at it. They confirmed it was not bad, but quoted to treat it and stop it coming back. We paid the money and everyone was happy.

    Perhaps get in a mould expert rather than rely on a PM or plumber (especially if there's risk the tenant will push this further)?
     
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  20. thatbum

    thatbum Well-Known Member

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    Did you read what I said? I clearly set out the legal issues.

    I'll make some comment on this too.

    Basically you're just cherry picking what evidence you want to hear and ignoring the rest, which is a dangerous/silly thing to do when facing legal issues.

    Here are some other facts from your own version of the story:

    - Tenant actually lives there, when the PM and plumber have only been there a few times or sporadically
    - Upon, investigation, there actually is something wrong with the building that requires plumber attention (corroborating what the tenant has said so far)
    - its a newish build and therefore are are less likely to be other faults or contributing factors.

    See what I mean?

    I'm not saying the tenant is 100% correct, but I'm saying its seems incredible that you think you are 100% correct on the facts so far.
     
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