leanfire vs fatfire

Discussion in 'Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE)' started by Momentum, 11th Oct, 2019.

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  1. Momentum

    Momentum Well-Known Member

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  2. Hodor

    Hodor Well-Known Member

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    The descriptions are in the links you provided.

    Lean FIRE - "For those that want to approach the problem of financial independence from a minimalist, stoic, frugal, or anti-consumerist trajectory."

    Fat FIRE - "Retire with a fat stash."

    Why do you ask?
     
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  3. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    Lean FIRE is retiring on 40-50k in OZ...whilst fat FIRE is anything over 100k.

    60-80k is considered comfortable.

    A lot of people like talking about getting over 60k per annum to retire but very few people do...something like less than 5% of retirees do. That should give you context.
     
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  4. kitdoctor

    kitdoctor Well-Known Member

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    Glad I stumbled in here. I can use these new words and impress my sister with them right now over coffee.
     
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  5. zyea

    zyea Member

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    LeanFIRE: Can retire and survive, but no luxuries and many compromises (most likely never eating out or taking holidays that aren't sleeping in the boot at a free campsite).
    FIRE: Able to sustain current (middle class) lifestyle for at least 25 years. No major changes needed
    FatFIRE: Able to ramp up expenses to include business class flights, 5 star hotels, house cleaners, maybe a yatch or 2.
     
  6. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    Mate I all for FatFIRE...and the yatch or 2....I don't like yachts.

    On a more serious note....that is exactly where I am at ...FatFIRE you only need about 100k for 2...but no yachts though....
     
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  7. virgo

    virgo Well-Known Member

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    Wa...so many new acronyms......

    I am OBESE FIRE then:)...(so ..so proud of my new found vocabulary!):D
     
  8. TAJ

    TAJ Well-Known Member

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    My retirement income will lie between 78 - 82k nett.
    It is comprised of Super pension drawdown (twice monthly payment), rental income (3 properties) and dividend payments from LIC's, which obviously vary. This is for myself only.
    Having had a successful business provided this outcome. Was it easy? Not at all!
    Not wavering from the plan is the tricky bit. But now that I have retired, life is just great and the sacrifices made along the way have paled into insignificance.
    Moderate Flame does me fine!
     
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  9. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Agree, not a lot do, but it really isn't that hard. The important thing to note is that for most, it's not quick. These things take time and you must consistently work on it, not go "oh, lovely. I've got a lot of equity, I'll sell that property so I can go on a nice holiday".
     
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  10. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    Well that depends whether it is after tax.

    Remember this is income after taxes....and other expenses.

    I will comfortable hit 100k after tax...but as time goes on it will increase. Once draw down on Super happens..I am looking at over 200k in today's dollars.
     
  11. virgo

    virgo Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't everyone calculate on basis of After Tax? :rolleyes:
    Bulk in 2 SMSFs (don't ask me why 2...long story:()
     
  12. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    Congrats ...you are one of the 3% of retirees....
    Nope...most don't...and some think that is gross before expenses.

    As for SMSF...my condolences....I know some people have a few mil trapped there..but can't access till 60. :D I am just moving into Super..and plan to hit the $1.6m cap...but risk is there gubbermint can change things. The other thing about super is the withdrawal rate increase as you age till you hit about 10%! But none the less you can have $3.2m in super....and draw down about 4% from 60-70 so on $3.2m you draw down 160k...and then 5% from 70 so on. I think the numbers are correct. But some of it can be waste as super income is tax free for the moment...thus why I left a lot outside of super because I have a lot in depreciation which negates tax dollar for dollar plus the tax free threshold of 18.5k. So 80k depreciation plus 18.5k tax free threshold gives you 98k tax free. Add to say another 70k in super tax free. You have about 168.5k tax free!!

    Its all about structuring......:D And if you have another 50k. You can still put in 25k in super and pay 6k in tax and have an income of 213k net income!
     
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  13. virgo

    virgo Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sash

    I am surprised at these low %...where are you getting these numbers from ..may i ask?:)
     
  14. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    DIRE movement

    Delay, Inherit, Retire, Expire

    upload_2019-10-21_19-12-59.png

    My retirement - celebrated by installing a new pool in the backyard
     
  15. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    I read this some time ago...will try to find the article.

    The average combined super of retirees is less than $400k at the moment...most have much less. Some will have to do the fine balance between selling their main house and putting more into super but risk going over the threshold for assets.

    The full pension for a couple is about 34k.....so if they had about 400k in super...they would have about 50k in income if they structured things. But this is at 65-67 when they can get access to super.

    For self funded retirees ...it is actually harder work...as they are reliant on their assets returning consistent income.

    I prefer 3 pillar for income:

    1. Shares/ETFs/LICs outside super
    2. Super
    3. Properties
    4. Other investments.
     
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  16. Redwing

    Redwing Well-Known Member

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    FIREMobile

    upload_2019-12-1_16-55-1.png
     
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  17. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    I was aiming for the $100k tax free just as the kicker from super.

    Isn't that when you can access the pension? (Super's accessible at 60 ATM)

    I think it was from the Australian Financial Review or SMH (Ian Kohler or Paul Clitheroe) who put up the limits on how to maximize your income in retirement before losing the pension.
     
  18. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    I don't wait till 60....you are correct about accessing super at 60....and yes AFR/Kochie/Paul as well as Money mag have written about maximising super. But few do it early enought (best to start from late thirties/ealy 40s). Tipping just a another 5k a year will have huge impact...the other is ensuring you watch and track the performance of super...I find the Industry funds really good.

     
  19. Gen-Y

    Gen-Y Well-Known Member

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    FAT FIRE
    I like the sound of that - I will research more and see how I can fit in.
    I thought there was just one FIRE.
    Is this what people aim for generally speaking?
     
  20. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    It is still all about ME!
    LeanFire = Not quite poor
    FatFire = Stonkingly well off
     
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