Leaking from upper unit

Discussion in 'Repairs & Maintenance' started by EN710, 14th Jan, 2016.

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  1. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect. The Owners Corporation is responsible for repairing and maintaining common property. If the leak does not arise from a failure in common property but from a failure within the lot (plug and waste for the bath, for example) then it is not an Owners Corporation responsibility.

    Original vs renovated is not the definition of common property, either.

    For that reason, not necessarily Datto.
    The ability to claim on insurance does not align perfectly with Owners Corporation responsibilities, which is an unfortunate source of confusion. Firstly, it has to arise from an insurable event. Secondly, insured property (that the insurer will pay to repair/replace) differs from common property (for which the Owners Corporation is responsible to repair and maintain).
     
    Last edited: 3rd Mar, 2016
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  2. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    @Russ I do recall now that the strata manager told me that the leak was coming from my bathtub drain flange. Strata had a plumber " confirm" this.

    I was told tha as the drain flange sits above the slab then it's not common property and I had responsibilty to fix it.

    Anyway that was 5 or 6 years ago, the flange was changed and it hasn't leaked since.
     
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  3. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    @datto

    Bang on, mate!

    You weren't ripped off. Sounds like you might have had a good agent, 'cos that's the right way to do it.
     
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  4. Rich2011

    Rich2011 Well-Known Member

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    According to my strata manager if the damage is caused by common property (and I think plumbing pipes are but maybe not a flange) then the strata will pay for your painting too... If its a strata insurance claim the insurance will never pay for painting, but if its a normal plumbing repair then I think strata will pay for painting as its caused by a common property fault. This is what my strata manager told me after a lengthy conversation on the phone and is relevant to NSW.

    Anyway my point is about the painting, not who owns the pipes.
     
  5. Coconutwheels

    Coconutwheels Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have a reference for this?

    I'm sure I've read this somewhere years ago i.e if the damages are caused by common property or the water has had to cross common property, like the roof, then strata is responsible for paining too??
     
  6. Rich2011

    Rich2011 Well-Known Member

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    Ask your strata manager, if they are any good they should know.
     
  7. Coconutwheels

    Coconutwheels Well-Known Member

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    No they're the ones telling me painting is owners responsibility......period. I don't think it's that cut and dry, so I'm hoping to fine the legislation somewhere.
     
  8. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Your Strata Manager is probably correct.

    In NSW, the circumstances in which paint is not the Lot Owner's problem are when either:

    1) The insurance policy has an actual paint benefit (which is an optional extra) AND the damage is caused by an insurable event, or

    2) When the Owners Corporation accesses common property through your lot (including your paint) to address a fault in common property, in which case the rectification should return the lot to the condition prior to the rectification works. This is distinct from damage to your lot (including paint) caused by a failure in common property (i.e. stained and damaged paint from a leak caused by a failure in common property).
     
  9. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    Agree. I suppose you could ring fair trading and they might know. Emphasis on "might".

    I have found most strata managers are good, actually lets say excellent, at sucking money out of the lot owners lol.
     
  10. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    I don't really think so - but I'm a Strata Managing Agent so I'm biased.

    For a management fee of about $200/lot/year the strata manager keeps the records, pays the bills, attends to compliance, receipts levies, holds keys, attends to arrears, facilitates strata searches (not worth the $34 fee), argues with property managers trying to get cheeky repairs through strata, and lots more. Strata manager have rent, professional indemnity insurance (and public liability), software costs, utilities, licensing, CPD requirements, agency compliance and other costs, and the offer a labour-based service in an economy where AVERAGE salary in Australia is $75K - with clients wanting the world to keep turning when people are on leave.

    Then you have Lot Owners wanting to argue the toss about everything, often without knowing the facts. And then you you have Executive Committees who don't meet, don't resolve problems, and when the place is not maintained to someone's preferred standard everyone wonders why the fairy godmother strata manager isn't a consensus mind-reader.

    Then you have clients wanting to pay the lowest management fees they can find, and wondering why things go badly.

    Don't forget, agents act under instruction. The Owners Corporation or Executive Committee are meant to actually make the decisions and instruct.

    Then you have 25 year old kids in suits pulling $15K - $25K commission for real estate agencies, for standing next to a house or unit that sells itself in the market for the last 10 years.

    Honest strata managers actually work very hard in a tough job with real costs, and aren't very well remunerated.

    But yes, do ring Fair Trading. Our taxes and license fees pay for people to sit in a call centre and advise consumers. Unlike the agent, Fair Trading don't have other tasks to do in their job. Strata Managers should be knowledgeable, but we're actually not engaged in an advisory capacity (even though we often take time to explain things to courteous and rational people), so asking questions to Fair Trading is a good way to get the facts from an independent source.
     
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  11. Coconutwheels

    Coconutwheels Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks All, probably explains why I couldn't find it written anywhere.

    It was just a hunch from some problems 10yrs ago, but my memory has probably distorted it over the years. I'll just paint it myself and save an insurance claim.
     
  12. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    Very welcome. It's easy to miss the subtle differences in scenarios, and there's at least as much mis-information floating around as there is real information, when it comes to Strata responsibilities.
     
  13. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    @Russ I'm not saying all strata managers. I'm going by personal experiences from the few I've used plus what I've heard and by the online reviews.

    I have been on executive comittees for a number of years and I've tried my hardest to improve the condition of the common property and building.

    But there has always been a shortage of funds. Lot owners can be a pain in the butt when it comes to raising money to increase the sinking fund.

    OK we were paying about $200 per lot manag fees but with "extras" it was coming to about $350 per lot and our AGMs were worse than question time in parliament.

    Extras like storage, photocopy, auditor reports, BAS statements, tax returns etc etc were eating away our funds. Our admin budget was around $22K pa from memory. Insurance $8K, water $3K, cleaning/grass cutting $3K, electricity $1K, manag fees and extras were about $3.5K and a couple of K for repairs.

    Then we were getting ripped off by the tradies..overcharging, problems not getting fixed properly.

    Sorry I'm ranting on too much here.. Best thing I did was sell the unit last year and put the money in the bank.

    Oh yeah, and another thing, in order to save money we sacked the cleaners and grass cutter to save about $3K pa. We were suppose to take turns cleaning etc but many of the lazy owners never did their fair share.

    So Russ I can see it's not necessarily a strata managers fault but also the lot owners (as you mention).
     
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  14. Russ

    Russ Well-Known Member

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    and there is the root cause of many problems in Strata!

    All good Datto, I know you're not having a go at me. Hopefully it's an educational discussion for some observers, mate!

    You're right about the other revenue streams, they do help, but even in total it's not a cash-cow or an easy buck (if done right). The easiest way for a Strata Manager to make lots of money is to be really bad - to take your money and do as little as possible. Sadly, that is the business strategy that some people pursue in response to fee pressure, or clients who are unlikely to be able to be satisfied - and that result is even worse for clients. And then there are always suppliers who are just incompetent, as in any industry.

    Good on you for being on the Committee and trying to do something productive.

    Hopefully above is thought provoking for any observers who are unhappy about their Scheme but haven't considered the role they could play. A favourite saying of mine is "before you complain, have you volunteered". The authority in strata is vested in those acting a voluntary capacity - the Owners themselves. The paid strata manager should help them, but without the Owners, generally or on the Committee, making an effort - nothing gets decided.
     
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  15. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thanks @Russ for your understanding.
     
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  16. Ted Varrick

    Ted Varrick Well-Known Member

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    I've also been on Executive Committees for a large number of years and some AGMs are like an exercise in herding cats...

    In my experience, unfortunately most Lot Owners will look at a Strata Management Agreement and their eyes will immediately start to glaze over...

    Sort of like giving some "investors" (and I use the term loosely...) who want to invest a bunch of their life savings, a Product Disclosure Statement to read, which they later realise, after suffering some financial collateral damage, was the "fat bit in front of the application form".

    SMAs have an annual Base Fee and a bunch of extras, and the annual Base Fee is the number that sticks out like the proverbial. And that is, in my experience, what the lot owners focus on, and to compete in a race like this to the bottom, "extras" are a necessary component for those in the Strata Management business.

    For example, our (soon to be ex) Strata Manager charges $66 for an "out of hours phone charge" should old Mrs Magillacutty in # 4 decide to complain about # 5's smelly (and noisy) dog at 3.30pm on a Sunday afternoon, then "ka-ching". And every year 3 new by-laws appear on our AGM agenda because, and I'm not kidding, as advised by our Strata Manager, "it's $200 for each one or $500 for all three, so you are getting a discount". And the fact that they look like they have been written by a 2nd year law student after 3 days on the turps just doesn't seem to be a relevant issue. These kinds of things eventually lead Lot Owners to understand what 90 days notice means for their current strata manager.

    I have read a number of Russ's posts over the last few months and it sounds like some Committee members in Sydney should be having a chat with him..
     
    Last edited: 27th Mar, 2016
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  17. Mel Morgan

    Mel Morgan Sydney Property Manager Business Member

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    Re-hashing old thread as I'm dealing with a related issue. We manage a unit where each property has a separate laundry room next to their front door. One Sunday morning the tenant in the unit below sees water dripping through their laundry ceiling though the light fitting and calls an emergency plumber. Plumber comes, knocks on the door of our unit, they inspect the laundry and find that there's a dripping tap which is allowing water to pool on the laundry floor and somehow getting into the ceiling below. Apparently our tenant had a box or basket blocking the waste. Building is maybe 40yrs old.

    Plumber asks our tenant to turn off the dripping tap, move the blockage over the drain and sends us a bill for $500+. No actual plumbing was done.

    If the water proofing was functioning correctly in the building, I assume the water should not have made its way into the unit below? The building's bathrooms have already had failed waterproofing. Strata are refusing to get involved.

    Should our owner be footing this plumbing bill?
     
  18. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    IMO Yes. They left a tap running and blocked the drain and created the need for a plumber call out.
    Lesson learned. Its like parking and speeding fines. They encourage changed behaviour.
     

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