Large scale subdivsion

Discussion in 'Development' started by bob shovel, 20th Dec, 2016.

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  1. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Hi PC'ers

    Is there anyone here that is dabbling in larger scale subdivision works? eg 10+acres virgin lots and split to 1/4 blocks and sell them off? land, DA, sewer, water, telecom etc

    Where would I find the reading material for this side of things and/or cost breakdowns and areas of risk to look out for? Earthworks and utilties are easy to bang to in once you get a design (at a cost ;)) town planning and design would be time consuming

    With smaller splitter dev's etc the time to buy is critical, but with the larger stuff is the market movements as critical? I'd think it is more about seeking out the land and being familiar with the local planning to get the bargain buys.

    Costs
    Buy land
    holding costs - probably quiet high waiting for DA's and construction of utilities earthworks etc
    Approvals
    Town planning
    Design
    QA
    Marketing? agents roll out the red carpet to take care of it?

    Is it worth also looking at going to the next step and building on a few while you're there?
     
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  2. Anthony416

    Anthony416 Well-Known Member

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    I am doing a small subdivision now (for a client) in the Hills council LGA. Bit different from your situation since it is a Rural Cluster sub-division (lots need to be min 4,000m2 and max 10,000m2).
    As it progresses further I may be able to help with specific questions, but getting the documents ready for a DA is time consuming and then the DA will take maybe 3 months min but closer to 6 months. So far for my documents I have needed specialist reports for Bushfire, Ecology, Arborist, Geotech, Contaminated Land, Aboriginal Heritage and Artifacts, Heritage and Traffic. Survey and Engineering plans of course for lot layout and private roads.
    Some of these reports need a preliminary (to take to the pre-DA meeting) as well as full versions for DA. I am the Planner so I do the SEE (for the DA) and a project description and preliminary constraints assessment (for the pre-lodgement).
     
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  3. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Well-Known Member

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    I would think purchase cost/holding cost/construction costs would be the biggest hurdles to overcome. Even some of the large, national developers struggle with cashflow to the point where JV finance arrangements with contractors become necessary - and these are on projects where initial purchase costs are in the 10's of millions.
     
  4. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    That sounds along similar lines to what I'm looking into. Are you a fulltime town planner? Or is this a side project you're helping with?

    Im working with a pipelaying and civil engineering company and there is no money(profit) in doing those dev jobs laying sewer/water etc for clients but if we bought the land and had our crews and machines doing it, it would be worthwhile as a side project or move into more bigger jobs
     
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  5. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    yes the finance would be tricky and would have to look to companies and JV structures, this wouldnt be a personal portfolio arrangement.
     
  6. melbourne171

    melbourne171 Well-Known Member

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    For finance, you may set up a Unit Trust open to public to raise additional fund. For a such big project, it is better to create a JV with different experts.

    There are arces development land in Dandenong and Pakenham sold starting from $2m. Some developers has raised fund and published PDS for raising funds. These PDS tell us the whole project activities, risk analysis, structure, funding, parties, entities etc. You have read these PDS for similar large scaled development projects to get ideas how such projects are implemented. This can be a start point to learn arces development project.
     
    Last edited: 21st Dec, 2016
  7. melbourne171

    melbourne171 Well-Known Member

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  8. Anthony416

    Anthony416 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I am a full time Planner, mostly smaller two lot sub-divisions, change of use, dwelling approvals etc. The Rural Cluster sub-division is around 9 lots for this one. Seems to be very popular in the Hills LGA at the moment. The draw back is that 60% of the land has to go to Community Title to keep the biodiversity component. Still compared to previous restrictions on rural sub-divisions, the yield is much greater.
     
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  9. melbourne171

    melbourne171 Well-Known Member

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  10. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    @bob shovel - There's a JV required in here - see what you can bring to the table.
     
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  11. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    Yup just keep his costs DOWN @bob shovel..no fancy tunnels OK :p
     
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  12. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    Sewer tunnels are where it's at :)
     
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  13. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

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    In WA if the land also needs rezoning there is a big process before the DA for a Structure Plan/Outline Development Plan

    It's very similar but is a local and state govt back and forth process.

    An extra to the specialist reports above there is Water Management (stormwater/hydrology etc)

    Once all the appropriate zoning has been done then the DAs start for all the next stages of work - clearing, services, road construction blah blah

    This is a 3-4yr process.

    I believe @Aaron Sice has mentioned before the good idea of having an offer accepted on the land with a 2yr long settlement for example in which you can get all the approvals done and be shovel ready for settlement time.
     
  14. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    that would be a good job if it wasn't so far away!!

    might go chasing some developer jobs... but not the conc encase granny flat jobs, the cowboys can keep that work @Leo2413
     
  15. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    i have my pencil sharpened and ready to make change! :D I love seeing designers cry
     
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  16. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    Love your work Bob! :D:eek: