NSW Landlord using part of our rental without permission

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by punti, 3rd May, 2022.

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  1. punti

    punti Active Member

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    My partner and I have just sold our home and have moved into a 12 month rental whilst we look to buy. We downsized in terms of space and one of our key factors was available storage. When viewing the property there was a large white storage container at the end of one of the parking spaces which was to be used for storage as well as a separate storage cage. Perfect for us as it’s hard to find a 3 bed unit with sufficient storage. We moved in over the weekend only to find none of the keys work for the storage container. After approaching the PM, they’ve informed us that the container (which is taking up 25% of our parking space) is NOT included in the lease. There is no mention of this in the lease, nor did they ever disclose this to us previously. They’ve informed us that the owner has belongings on there and they will not be providing us the key. The PM is now not replying to my emails or calls.

    I’d like to avoid going to tribunal, but am happy to if need be. Am I in my right to request use of the storage container? If not, I believe they should be required to remove it from my property?

    We have multiple rental properties and would never treat our tenants in the manner. We have only rented once before and have always owned for the last 11 years.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    If it is not excluded from the lease, I would assume anyone inspecting the place as a potential rental would assume the storage is for the tenant's use. I would say you are within your rights to complain. What can you do about it? No idea.

    Calling @Michael Mitchell, @Tom Rivera.
     
  3. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    What was advertised and shown to you at the open?

    If there's no exclusion on the lease, then it's included in the lease.

    I'd also be upset about losing 25% of the parking space. Where can you put 25% of a car?
     
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  4. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    You assumed and they didnt exclude it. Wonder if they expect a right of access to your leased property access the container ? If damage is incurred are you liable ? eg If it was stolen,or broken into what happens ?

    You said...
    what led you to beleive it was to be used for storage ? was it empty ? Did you inspect it and see an empty container and assume that it was included ? Or was it merely there on arrival ? That is likely a important difference.

    May be worth asking for vacant possession if that is what the lease says.
    Discuss with Fair Trading and consider a tribunal claim...what do you want as a remedy ?
     
  5. punti

    punti Active Member

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    Fair points. When signing the lease, I did note that there was no exclusions. So yes I technically did ‘assume’. Our cars back up hard to the container (around 200mm off) and we still stick out past the car spot so hard to see how they even access it.

    Property was tenanted during inspection so storage cage and car spaces were occupied. Tough to know whether the container was full of tenants or landlords belongings.

    I did ask for vacant possession and the response was. You have been, the container is not included in the lease.

    Mind you, that was AFTER the PM said she’d contact the landlord to locate the keys.

    Looks like I’ll be speaking to Fair Trading.
     
  6. Michael Mitchell

    Michael Mitchell Property Manager Business Member

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    If the rental listing did not state it was excluded, the entry report did not state it was excluded, the lease did not state it was excluded, you have a very reasonable claim to use it, furthermore, if the Lessor is entering your exclusive use area granted by the lease (eg. the property) to access the container, they are trespassing and in breach of tenancy legislation unless they're giving you an entry notice with proper notice period each and every time which does not sound to be the case either. There are a number of red flags here, going forward, you want to get exclusive use of the container as it sounds like should be the case based on the info you've provided, if they're adamant they won't give that, and you're ok with that, the next thing is to negotiate a rent reduction due to lack of amenity, along with reasonable terms for them accessing it, such as the entry notice procedure, failing that, go to tribunal and get the access, I don't see you losing this argument, based on the info you're provided.
     
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  7. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    Have you returned your portion of the entry condition report yet ?
    If not, then add it in
     
  8. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    If the entry condition report hasn't gone back within the time limit, it's too late and the agent issued report is what stands (unless things have changed).

    But I'd be reading it carefully, and the lease in case this has been mentioned somewhere in the paperwork.
     
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  9. datto

    datto Well-Known Member

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    I’d be charging the landlord rent.
     
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  10. Mel Morgan

    Mel Morgan Sydney Property Manager Business Member

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    Work out what you want - do you want the storage or would you be happy with $x rent reduction? Then put forward your reasoning as per Michael's post above in writing and ask for a response by x date. That way you can take it to ncat if you don't get a satisfactory response and its all very clear and summarised.
     
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  11. Tom Rivera

    Tom Rivera Property Manager Business Member

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    Be aware that this is likely going to turn messy- it's almost certain that the Agent has screwed up here by failing to disclose, and the Landlord won't be willing to budge on removing their belongings OR dropping the rent over it. Work out what you want, but be aware that I think this will end up in tribunal.
     
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  12. beachgurl

    beachgurl Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps work out how much a local storage facility will cost to store your things and ask for a reduction for that figure.
     
  13. Burramys

    Burramys Well-Known Member

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    A valid point. If there was a reasonable belief that the stored items belonged to the tenant then it's probable, but not certain - that a ruling would be in your favour,
     
  14. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    It's not up to the tenant to dig deeper to discover if it's the tenant's or owner's possessions in the storage units.

    If the agent hasn't excluded it or advised that there's 1⅔ parking spaces or no storage ie said you've got parking space X, then the owner (and their agent on their behalf) hasn't excluded anything else in that space.
     
  15. punti

    punti Active Member

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    This was exactly my thinking. Hopefully the owner sees the costs involved in going to Tribunal on top of hopefully being awarded a rent reduction as well.
     
  16. punti

    punti Active Member

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    Yep, I sent that off to the PM today. Closest storage facility for the same storage capacity. TBH I'm surprised how much Kennards and the like charge for storage. No wonder the landlord is so keen on keeping it! =)
     
  17. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be upset if it was legitimately taking up space that I needed, but making assumptions that it came with the rental is a whole different ball game, if you had seen an old caravan at the home, would you expect it to come with the rental or expect it to be the previous tentant's?
     
  18. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    +1.

    @punti I would follow the advice from Michael.
     
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  19. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    And I suspect, no matter what, you're going to be looking for a new rental as soon as the lease is up. LL will get a valuable lesson on making sure this is mentioned for the next tenant.
     
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  20. Burramys

    Burramys Well-Known Member

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    This is a scaled-down version of the external toilet fiasco. Sometimes corners can be cut without any problems, but often this is not the case. Insurance, due diligence, using registered contractors such as a sparkie, planning permits and the like are essential. If these are not done or used then it might be okay for a while, and then the place burns down due to illegal wiring or falls down due to a shoddy builder. Then the insurance (if you have it) says that as the wiring et al was not to code there's no cover. The external toilet bloke learned the value of following the rules the hard way.

    I wonder if there's a toilet in the storage cabinet ...
     
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