Kitchen reno blunder

Hi All,

Well the new installer came to resolve the issues, so in that regards , we very happy.

There is still one issue which I think needs some questions answered, by both the builder and kitchen designer.

As you know the kitchen designer was recommended by the builder and they were going to work together closely. (wall removal, nib wall extension and new kitchen). This is what i was told which is why i went with the builder's kitchen designer. I had many other quotes, all competitively priced, but chose the builders kitchen designer on that fact that they would be working closely on a "project", which involved more than just installing a kitchen, but removing a wall and extending a nib wall.

Once the wall was removed, nib wall extended and kitchen installed, we noticed that our pantry depth has been reduced from 280mm to 235mm. This has raised several questions, which include:

1: Why wasn’t a 2nd measurement done, which was suggested would be done, once the deposit was paid? I asked when the final measurement would be done but got no answer.

2: Why wasn’t the customer alerted to the fact that their panty depth would be reduced? This should have been a “red flag” to contact the customer and builder.

3: Why wasn’t there communication between the builder (extending nib wall) and designer that the nib wall would be extended to allow for additional pantry depth. Currently, there is close to 50mm available for additional depth which is now wasted space. This become a sore point when previous pantry depth was 280mm and current depth is 235mm. The wasted space should have been used to keep pantry depth the same as old kitchen.

4: Why isn’t the pantry cupboard “flush” with walls (as per visual design)?

I am going to ask these questions to the builder/kitchen designer tonight. Is there anything else you feel I should be asking?

Cheers,
Robbie

 

Added to this i feel that builder seemed to have the vision of the end product (based on his exact extension of nib wall), but this was not passed onto or discussed with the kitchen designer as the wasted space (around 45-50mm) is pretty much the additional depth i thought i was getting... well not exactly additional depth, more like keeping pantry depth the same as old kitchen.

 

Poor communication is what it comes down to.
And I wouldn't rely on the computer drawing as the "final image ",it's only a program to help visualise for the client.
I can't really work out what's happening in the last photo, is it a small gap? There are tolerances and if the kitchen guys went 10mm bigger it wouldn't fit at all, plus going slightly smaller helps get it plus allow for any walls or floors out of whack. It should be able to be hidden easy enough.

 

Dont worry too much about the last image, it was just added to show you the left hand side of pantry cupboards.

I guess my main concern was why wasnt the pantry cupboards made deeper(same depth as existing cupbaords)? Both the new installer and kitchen designer confirmed that it would have been easy to do.

Had the kitchen designer come in today to design the kitchen, with the nib wall already extended, the current pantry depth would have been made deeper, atleast 45-50mm the space allows it. As mentioned, builder had the idea in mind, but wasnt on the same wavelength as the kitchen designer.

As you mentioned, it was pour communication between builder and designer, but just need to know if i have every right to feel hard done by or whether i should just accept it and move on.

 

Have they offered solutions or compensation?

They probably see it as minor but very costly to redo.
It's a tough one.

... How come the left side is flush but the right isn't? If you brought the right side out flush wouldn't the left side be protruding then?

 

Maybe these pictures will illustrate it better..

The left hand side has about 90mm available, the right hand side has 50mm available. If the depth of the pantry had been the original depth, then the right side would have sat flush and the left side would be 40mm in (still not protruding).

Im still not sure why that if there was so much extra depth available (50mm), why wasnt it used, especially considering they made the new pantry depth 50mm shallower.

What would you guys do in this situation?

 

Sent my email, along with questions, to builder, so ill let you know what sort of reply i get..

 

Well i got the below reply from the builder and before i reply i was hoping for some advice from you guys.

1: Minor issues with kitchen? If those of minor issues i was hate to see major issues!
2: Contractual obligations? Is that something he should have presented to me?
3: The kitchen design was never discussed with me, but just dropped in my post box after i paid my deposit
4: Even if i did study the design in detail before i paid deposit, the design indicates a depth of 255, am i supposed to know theres a 20mm backing which reduces pantry depth from 255 to 235?
5: I never insisted for deeper cupboards, i just expected the same
6: If i decide to get cupboard depth extended (and pay $500), why must i supply dimensions? I paid the designer good money to do this for me! He should be doing this especially considering he was suppose to do a 2nd measurement and didnt,
7: If i decide to get cupboards depth extended, why must i pay in FULL considering the terrible job they did the 1st and 2nd attempts at my kitchen?
8: If i did pursue this in court, would it be a costly and lengthily process?

At the end of the day, I'm tired and just want this sorted, this has been a very bad experience, so just want pantry fixed and to move on with things


-----------------------


Morning Robbie

Thanks for the email.

Now I have had chance to talk to Mark about your email, despite the minor issues experienced we both feel we have now fully fulfilled our contractual obligations.

You placed the order for the kitchen through me, based on the design plans that Mark provided you which show all of the design including pantry area, Mark has simply replaced your old pantry with the matching size new pantry to include the overhead cabinet above the fridge which completes the line of cabinets wall to wall which is why he suggested the nib wall be extended.

Any space lost in the depth of cabinet would be pretty much made up for by the addition of the overhead cabinet above the fridge.

At no point in your dealings with Mark or myself did you insist on deeper cabinets.

We feel that were we to persue this through the courts, we would win this case and you would be obliged to pay in full plus court costs which im sure you are aware can be very hefty.



However, in the interest of good customer service and to avoid any lengthy court cases I would like to offer you the following.


1) We can replace the pantry cabinets, refit the existing new doors, at an additional cost to you of $500 YOU MUST NOMINATE THE INTERNAL CABINET DEPTH IN WRITING AND PAY IN FULL IN ADVANCE OF INSTALLATION.

2) we can reduce the final bill by $500 if you are prepared to accept the pantry cabinets as they are FULL BALANCE OF PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED BY FRIDAY 18TH DEC.


Regards

 

Quite amazing.. after getting this email from the builder (who im surpised mentioned court - something that didnt cross my mind) this morning we picked up more issues with the kitchen, which include .the pantry handles still have evident holes and chips at their base and the pantry shelves have different depths! Some are 224mm and some are 234mm! Of the 12 shelves we have, 10 of them are 224mm in depth (and loose) and 2 of them are 234mm in depth (and secure).

WTF? lol

 

This is what they are counting on. They are trying to wear you down so you concede defeat.

So much for 'you get what you pay for'. You got a bargain basement quality install for a premium price. It's really dissapointing.

Your next step is to document all the issues you have with the current install, including photos and submit them to the builder asking for them to be rectified. At the same time, it would be worthwhile finding out what the dispute resolution procedure is in your state.

In WA, we can complain to the builders registration board. My mate couldn't get faults rectified on a new build and threatened to lodge a complaint with the builders registration board. The building company acted immediately to rectify all faults. You should have a similar process in your state.

At the end of the day you have (or are being asked to) pay for something that had not been done to your satisfaction. You have the right to get what you paid for (or will pay for).

 

My wife has just found some more issues! As things stand, we are making a list of outstanding issues (besides pantry depth), but will not be allowing the builders back into the house until i have sought legal advice, which will be next Monday.

At the time the builder sent the email, he assumed everything was complete and installation issues addressed (excluding pantry depth), tried to put the pantry depth issue on my hands, indirectly said they would win in court, gave me 2 options (keep kitchen as is - pay $500 less or fix up pantry for $500 more), now more issues have arisen.

I never thought that would have to go down this path, but they are the ones who indirectly brought it up by saying they would win in court.

Seems like the ball is back in my court (excuse the pun), but will not do anything further until i have legal advice. They are lucky i havent mentioned any names (builder and design company) on here or to family,friends, other tradesman as well as any negative write-ups, because surely this negative feedback is more costly than the additional $500 they asking for

 

If they are offering you $500 discount to keep the kitchen as is....they are conceding they are in the wrong. AND you have that in writing.

pinkboy

 

Yup, they offering me a $500 discount to keep kitchen as is (i have this in writing).

Got "friendly" reply from builder who said kitchen designer will be in touch with me.

I felt like telling him "We will be in contact with you after I have detailed the new issues we have found as well as once we have sought legal advice - until then, we dont want to hear from you.. NFO"

 

Added to this we have found found MORE issues, which include:

1: Left pantry door missing rubber stoppers causing wood on wood to wear / chip corner of cupboard – see attached.

2: Right pantry doors misaligned when open – see attached

3: Cupboard door handles not symmetrical distance from edge of cupboard – some handles of 36mm from edge, some are 39mm. This can be seen with naked eye – see attached

Now that the designer and builder asked me to make reference to a design diagram, which was never discussed with me and only provided to me after my deposit payment (by leaving it my post box), i have found 2 issues in the diagram versus the installation.

1: The diagram does not indicate the 200mm void between the wall and cupboard internal (to right of sink) . My plumber made a gas outlet and was not informed there would be a 200mm void. He was called to site, which incurred additional costs for me, to extend the gas connection for an additional 200mm to cater for a void not shown in diagram. This was also not picked up by builder.

2: In the diagram it indicates a 55mm gap / space allowance between the edge of the dishwasher and the start of the side underneath cupboard. Currently that gap is only 25mm. This means when the dishwasher is opened, it misses the side cupboard door handle by 3mm. This leaves no room for error when opening the dishwasher and comes very close to jamming fingers between dishwasher and door handle when opening. Please also refer to attached.

I await their response to the 7 outstanding issues which have been found after i was indirectly threatened they would win in court, then provided me with 2 options.. discount the kitchen by $500 and ignore the pantry issue or pay $500 and get it fixed. The later option, they wanted me to pay in FULL (balance)before they fixed it, which i would never do considering all the issues which have arisen.

 

Dishwasher is way too close to handle. I always allow at least 20- 30mm incase dishwasher moves. The way it is now you'll damage your dishwasher in no time .

 

Well according to the plans, there should be a 55mm gap, clearly there isnt.

 

I'm also just surprised by the dishonesty of the installer, kitchen designer and builder, that they installed a kitchen like this and were all at my property after kitchen was installed but never brought up any issues, which I'm sure they saw but decided to keep hush.

 

What a nightmare! It just doesn't end!!
Keep lists and dates of everything,it will all help. The photos are great too as records and they have dates taken connected to them

 

Tell me about it.. the thing is i actually dont want any of these guys near my house!

As things stand, i actually just want my deposit back and kitchen re-done.. properly! Something i could well push for.

 

I take it you've found legal advice and going to challenge? What are you going for? Full new install sounds like the easiest way with all the issues!