Joint ventures -what are the basics to protect each party?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Otie, 26th Apr, 2017.

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  1. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    My mother is wanting to do a JV together, buy untitled land, put house on it and flip it with a 3 or 4 year period if there's enough growth, alternatively happy to keep it tenanted if growth isn't worth selling. House/land isn't my ideal type of deal but I wouldn't mind doing one for short term small profit to mix things up a bit. My main goal is actually to assist my mum in making some cash to pay down her mortgage so she can retire sooner. She can't do anything without me though

    I have 200k usable equity. I only want to use a minimal amount for this project so I can continue doing my own thing.

    I want to know what the basics are when you do a JV?
    The main things I can think of are;
    -Equity- both contribute same amount deposit to keep things equal.
    -get lawyer to draw something up in case things go bad between us, one of us die etc (can't see it happening but you never know)
    -both split everything 50/50 bills/gains etc

    Anything else we should be aware of?
     
  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Ownership structure
    Structure of the structure
    Funding structure
    For starters
     
  3. RPI

    RPI SDA Provider, Town Planner, Former Property Lawyer

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    A unit trust would allow you to define specified percentage of ownership. A discretionary trust would be more flexible.

    A solid agreement that outlines who does what when things go bad is the key.
     
  4. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Fixed rights to income
    Passive or active involvement ?
    Limited liability for debts
    Property security may expose asset loss (maybe not 100%)
    Trading losses and security eg mortgage, guarantees etc.

    Lawyers are the people to assist.

    Personally I would start by costing the project. Developments dont have to be profitable and often arent when started by people who have never done one. Allow for GST and all other incidentals incl selling costs etc. Ensuring a sizeable profit is budgeted would avoid a lot of problems from having insufficient cash to complete etc.

    A project plan without a profit is a plan to fail.
     
  5. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    Very overwhelming
     
  6. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why GST comes into this when it will be tenanted for a year. If that's the case what makes it different to when people sell off IPs over the years? I'm genuinely interested to learn more about this
     
  7. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    You aren't buying it in you own names, but in a JV business.

    If you are just joint purchasers (not as JV), totally different issues.

    The Y-man
     
  8. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    We were planning to just do it in joint names @The Y-man
     
  9. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    What are the drawbacks of doing it just in joint names?
     
  10. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Joint liability. No flexibility to minimise tax. Stamp duty on restructure. Asset protection. Death of an individual etc etc.

    But this doesn't mean joint names are not the way to go
     
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  11. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    No formal (legal) agreement if things turn to $#@%@#&^%

    You just fight it out with your mum (same as buying as husband/wife then going divorce).

    50/50 split on tax benefits unless you buy as tenants in common to declare a different split.


    The Y-man

    edit - Terry beat me with a better answer! :p
     
  12. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible to still have a legal agreement if just in joint names? I had assumed tax would just be split between the two of us (liable for half each)
     
  13. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    Yes you can have a legal agreement but this may have minimal effect in some aspects. E.g borrowing capacity and joint liability
     
  14. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    So Terry, for the average numpty like me, this means if either one of the parties has some financial issues and the bank comes after them, they can potentially have access to ALL the assets of both parties right?

    The Y-man
     
  15. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    I'd be happy with that. We both have secure employment and are responsible. I think my only concern would be if she were to die and my sibling tried to take my bit!
     
  16. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    If mum stops paying the son has a choice to either pay the lot or the bank will take the property and sell it.

    If there is a shortfall the bank may come after either or both of them by selling g assets until the debt is paid.
     
  17. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    Im the daughter, but I would be okay if if I had to pay it all, after all it would be tenanted anyway, and if it come to the point she could no longer afford it the plan would be to sell it.
     
  18. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    New residential property is a taxable supply when first sold. (Unless for some bizarre reason its value is under $75K) If its continually rented and no other purpose for at least 5 years then the GST issue can go away. But within 5 yrs it doesnt. If your intention to do the dev is to profit then its likely caught. If you build your own home and sell it may not be. If you think that this emans you can live in it and sell the one you lived in and keep others that wont work either. In fact it may mean the home isnt a CGT exempt home.

    Isnt affected by entity or personal names or joint names etc.
     
  19. Otie

    Otie Well-Known Member

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    Okay that makes sense. 5 years is doable anyway
     
  20. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Holding off 5 years can actually cost you.

    Selling on completion can have the same outcome and its brand new - Far far easier to sell at a good price than after 5. Benefits of selling when new:
    - Can claim 100% of the GST on build...After three months, three years etc it will reduce how much you can claim. Possibly $0.
    - Margin scheme when sold may reduce GST by half (?)
    - 5 year rule comes with risks - Its not simple
    - After 5 years GST may be more if it goes up or less if value falls. Most devs want to just bank the profit and walk on.

    If you are thinking of 12months and CGT discount think again. Doesnt apply to developer intentions.