Job Keeper and Tax Cuts

Discussion in 'Business Accounting, Tax & Legal' started by MTR, 8th Jul, 2020.

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  1. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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  2. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    They have. They were also chasing simplicity

    When JK2 was announced just before melbourne meltdown they had a range of tests for income to wean more off. Then overnight it became apparent this would fail those affected in wave 2. Just before the Vic meltdown cases had been declining and stable so thigs were rosy. But then it turned sour. So they simplified it with two quarterly tests. And having a special rule for a new hotspot was too onerous. Each business will need to retest their ability to stay on JK (or to join it !!). They called it Jobkeeper 3 when announced but essential the modified rules were the final product

    I have a (unlisted) video for clients on the changes:

    Many have asked why jobkeeper is paid to employers. Centrelink would never have coped and centrelink barely coped with stood down workers prior to Jobkeeper...remember the queues. Those queues were about to get much much longer with massive paymnet delays. Social welfare crisis. . The ATO was the fastest way to reimburse employers who would pay workers. Hence its a job retention strategy and avoid beurocracy at Centrelink. Its quite logical and is a key element of job retention. That the fundamental pillar of the policy.

    Some say its being abused by the like of Qantas. Thats rubbish. Qantas only get paid what they have paid as a MINIMUM to staff. Its welfare for employers. as a reimursemnet. So they may save jobs - or at least delay job losses.
     
    Last edited: 17th Sep, 2020
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  3. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely being abused that is for sure and I know you will call it stimulus. It is stimulus if you are on the list of profiteering companies. Very easy to manipulate cash flow to artificially suppress monthly revenue and gain Jobkeeper.
     
  4. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Well if you get elected you can share your views with other members. Until that you can report offenders. ATO acts on all allegations. You really dont...know... Its anecdotal. Every tax issue is rorted or exploited. Remember Rudd throwing cash away?

    Jobkeeper is pretty hard to exploit without blatant fraud and that leaves data to follow. ATO have years to check it!!!

    Its actually easy to exploit it. But the.penalties are criminal offences.

    Income must be received. Eventually. And it gets reported. I see client bank deposit data in ato systems...they see more than many realise
     
    Last edited: 17th Sep, 2020
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  5. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    Is it safe to assume all those under the table companies (restaurants particularly) won't be able to claim Jobseeker?

    GREAT! I'm sick of those tax dodging cheats.
     
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  6. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Yes. And didnt they complain. There were anti-avoidance rules which prevented them suddenly being compliant taxpayers.
    They also didnt get cashflow boost in many cases. They didnt have employees at 1 March 2020.
    Some concessions like state grants also are only available for employers with employees on jobkeeper. The compliance has finally caught up with them.

    And some of their workers didnt qualify for jobkeeper benefits either....eg Foreign workers, casuals employed under a year. And governmnet response allowed some foreign workers to dip into super to them get by...But they werent being paid super.

    There are employer industries where after this is over the staff are quite likely to seek union protections and I reckon Albo will be very vocal as he should. I see a wave of industrial reform after this ends. We are presently doing 2020 tax work and from time to time find businesses that are seeking to claim deductions for wages paid in a non-compliant way. Tax law aftre 1 July 2019 denies them a deduction if the wages and payments arent reported to the ATO within the payg witholding system.
     
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  7. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    That's the best thing I've heard all day. Sometimes when I go to places I suspect are doing this, I will insist I pay with my card so it's going to hit the ATO. They say oh there's a $0.50c surcharge if you use a card. So bloody charge me then. I'd rather be contributing to the economy then helping those pricks.
     
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  8. sqe

    sqe Well-Known Member

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    JobKeeker is about reduction in income, not to do with profit/loss.

    But I agree with you, JobKeeker first time round was easy to manipulate, and taken up by many many businesses that just didn't need it for their survival. How many of those businesses have used if merely to fatten the bottom line. That said, it prevented carnage on the streets for many businesses that did actually need it for survival.

    Hopefully its not rorted to the same extend second time around. At the end of the day, it all has to be paid for bit this generation and the next.
     
  9. Tillie

    Tillie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about my complete ignorance, but I thought that for the tax deductions business entities always needed to have either receipts or payroll entries etc. How did they get away by paying the staff by using 'brown paper bag' method' and not deducting any PAYG or pay super and then claim 'brown paper bag payments' as tax deduction? Was that really legal before the specific law change Paul mentioned?
     
  10. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    What a great story. AH Beard originally applied and received Jobkeeper to keep staff on, received 1million in payments. After a few months like the majority of businesses out there sales just boomed and has kept on booming. Guess what AH Beard did? Rather than continue keeping the free taxpayers hard earned they paid the 1 million back and cancelled there Jobkeeper payments. I know where the next bed I buy will be coming from. This is just brilliant - applause all round
     
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  11. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    Still gets me this Jobkeeper. CEO's getting million dollar + bonuses because there staff on jobkeeper. Share prices going through the roof and yet the taxpayer paying there staff lol.
    All stimulus ay o_O
     
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  12. shorty

    shorty Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but they pale into comparison with large multinationals that pay $0 tax, or very little tax who then cry poor, collect Jobkeeper and pay dividends to their shareholders. That's the real issue.
     
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  13. Melbourne_guy

    Melbourne_guy Well-Known Member

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    ...and after tonight's announcement, will likely be able to claim huge tax write-offs. As will all the other companies who have made huge profits whilst claiming Jobkeeper, paying bonuses to directors and dividends to shareholders. ScoMo and Frydenberg really are feathering their nests for life after politics.
     
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  14. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    For sure,Scomo is milking this to high heaven.
     
  15. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    So are the workers who are working but our taxes pay there wages counted as unemployed because our taxes are called jobkeeper?

    And are the workers who are not working but are receiving jobkeeper also counted as unemployed?

    To me neither of these 2 categories are unemployed so Surely there not counted as unemployed adding to the "Gigantic Recession" we are apparently in.
     
  16. craigc

    craigc Well-Known Member

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    I get that a lot of this is letting of steam rant,
    But FYI large multinationals are ineligible for tax write-back under turnover tests.

    Again, I’m not sure if this was a rhetorical question or not, but employees who qualified to receive Jobkeeper v1 through their employer are not counted in the unemployment numbers. Even if working 0 / minimal or back to normal hours, they are still employed through the business so are not counted in the unemployment numbers.
     
  17. jaybean

    jaybean Well-Known Member

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    No idea who this AH Beard is. He sells beds? Ok, I'm buying my next bed from him too. I want to support this sort of stuff.
     
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  18. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    True Australian company too.
    Just don't buy it from Mr Harvey , record profits and we pay his staff.
     
  19. qak

    qak Well-Known Member

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    Bit of a different story to one of their competitors, I haven't heard any more on this one:
    ATO to investigate $11m JobKeeper claim
     
  20. Property Baron

    Property Baron Well-Known Member

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    There all doing it, thats common knowledge now and it's fairly well known that regardless of what they say, gov doesn't care about the rorts and thats easy to understand why. Apparently over 8000 tip offs and not one business pinged for rorts:rolleyes:
     

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