Is Sydney Expensive

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by Dean Collins, 30th Aug, 2018.

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  1. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    house is pretty cheap in australia if u dont live in sydney and melbourne..just like america if u dont live in sf or manhatttan etc etc..

    but u forget to include 2 very very expensive cost in america,
    health care and education.

    do you want to know what their student debt is in america ?
    Over 44 million Americans collectively hold nearly $1.5 trillion in student debt.
    Australian GDP 1.205 trillion USD (2016)

    i dont agree with holiday and entertaiment.. most yanks don leave their state let alone country.
    australian are one of THE most wide travelled people in the world, i am not talking bangkok and bali.. australians are everywhere for a population this small. and entertaiment, what that the americans have that you are missing out on fun ?

    i also would argue, making $100k in aud as an australian is easier than $70k usd as an american, everything else being equal.

    but in terms of infra,car,and dollar goes futher, thats for sure.. they also get stuff first and faster, also more allocation of products, as their market is biggest they get preference
     
  2. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    Countries with the highest standard of life

    Australians and the chip on the shoulder. **** is always better somewhere else..

    Im a migrant...ITS NOT WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY WITH SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY IF ONLY YOU BOTHER TO TAKE IT.

    Where is this America?

    upload_2018-8-31_13-38-45.png
     
  3. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    The countries in the top 20 or even top 30 are pretty much the same for all of those factors. What's the difference between scoring 9.3 or 9.2 in the big scheme of things? You also can't leave out cost of living when discussing quality of life otherwise it becomes meaningless.

    Another list for you: The 10 most expensive cities to live in around the world in 2018
     
  4. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    Superannuation is compulsory in Australia at @9.5% So if you make $100,000 your Supper is based on this . So you technically get $109,500

    401K participation in America is not the same or near it.
     
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  5. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    Nope, the average student debt for a graduate with a 4 year undergraduate degree is 30k which is comparable to a similar degree in Australia (Student loans in the United States - Wikipedia). People are getting confused with the Australia of 30-40 years ago and the reality of today.

    There are medical degrees in Australia now that are full fee paying and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars - this is payable in cash, not deferred as it is over the HECS limit.

    Many/most European countries have free university or very nominal fees that can be paid upfront by pretty much everyone
     
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  6. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    1st point is for people who dont make the grades, and those are mbbs, not a medical degree. that is a money making industry, not the same.. no one force you to do a medical degree or mbbs if you dont make the grades its to do with people's lives.. if u dont cut the mustard look at something else. i believe sydney uni and possible some other uni's in australia has adopted the MD rule and eliminated MBBS.

    medical degree are compulsary 2nd degrees. meaning u need to get a degree prior to be accepted in a medical school.

    and we are comparing united states to australia. what has europe got to do with this?.. Europe ?
    you mean turkey, russia, hungary, bosnia, albania, belarus, italy are better than australia for living standards

    or england, german, france, swiss, belgium+ scandavian are worst than australia for living standards?
     
  7. virhlpool

    virhlpool Well-Known Member

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    The problem is when you start comparing whole society. That's precisely a reason I particularly mentioned 'white collar jobs'. I am an entry-level engineer myself and have worked in the US as well as Australia. I have mates working over there. I have known people who are accountants, marketing professionals and so on at various levels (from entry to senior management). Most of them would say that US is far more favourable for three reasons: 1) Far more opportunities 2) More income and 3) Cheaper cost of living.

    Now, let me answer your arguments one by one.

    Education debt -> Public schooling is free there and schools are as good. For uni education they take debt from banks at dirt cheap rates. Uni education in Australia is free neither. We take debt too, but from govt instead of banks. We pay interest based on inflation which isn't too low either. Only advantage we have is that we get to wait until we earn say ~ $54k before we need to pay higher instalments. That income is easily/ quickly achieved by most degree holders, so it's not a big relief.

    Entertainment -> You sound foolish when you ask me to prove the US has more and still cheaper options than Aus. Universal Studio, Disney Land, major cruise lines, resorts, dirt cheap budget airlines.. what do you want to hear?

    Income levels -> Again, as a while collar job holder, American market probably gives you more money ($100k AUD vs $100k USD), faster career growth and ample of opps. This doesn't stand true for a retail or restaurant workers or similar other jobs but they don't make significantly higher here either considering how much more the cost of living is.

    Education and research quality -> At least top 35 of the 50 top unis in the world are US based. I stop here.

    Healthcare -> Since public healthcare infra isn't great, almost every employed person in the US has employer-sponsored insurance. Even if you were to buy an insurance on your own, it's not very expensive. There are zillion providers, so it's easier to get a good deal. Here, we do have medicare, but most of people still end up paying $200-$300/ month on private insurance anyway. Emergency care access wait period is 4-12 hrs here, at least. I never tried there.
     
    Last edited: 31st Aug, 2018
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  8. virhlpool

    virhlpool Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing - in US, you can choose to live in one of 50 cities that can offer you relevant jobs without you having to compromise on your career.. Atlanta, Richmond, Raleigh, Houston, Dallas, DC, Pittsburgh, what not.. You don't have to live in big city to make money and lead a nice life. Here you can't. Let's accept it.
     
  9. Illusivedreams

    Illusivedreams Well-Known Member

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    You have made a perfect argument for you to move the from Australia and not come back.

    Im happy to start a campaign to fund you to go the USA :)
     
  10. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about cost of living. If people can't complete a degree because it needs to be paid upfront and they can't afford it then the system is really nothing to brag about, even if it only applies to some degrees. HECS is a below-average system internationally and moreso in a country with such a high cost of living before this is even included.

    Even in the US, there are plenty of unis including the very best like Harvard etc that would be more affordable for a lower or middle class person than Australian universities.

    Net Price Calculator | Harvard College

    For a family making 90k (USD), a degree would cost the parents 4k plus an extra 4k which the student pays towards when working during the holidays. That's including full living costs btw (including rent on campus). If the parents make under 65k, the parents pay nothing and the student only contributes to the fees by working during the summer.

    I hope that's a joke?

    I didn't realise there were commies on this forum lol
     
  11. virhlpool

    virhlpool Well-Known Member

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    Mate, understand the difference between being patriot and checking facts. We can't brag about something which isn't just true even though I love this country as much as you. I am surprised you've been to the US and you didn't notice these apparent differences. Having said that, we have our pros.. low crime rate and low income disparity being the top ones.
     
  12. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    ya i just want to make a point people always think "Europe" its just the western eu -countries.

    i guess its different for everyone.. i dont know about you. but i've been to 2 universal studios and 3 disney land.. and i didnt go because i want to. and i dont think i would go back for me.


    resorts ? i do agree if u compare american resorts to australia. american is way cheaper.. but then u can always go to asia if u are aussie! its not the same i know.

    i am too young to to go on cruises. not joking, i know its awesome.
    budget airlines? in america ?

    but i admit if this is your style of entertaiment then america is the better country for you.

    the arguement here is for the middle class,
    in the use 100k u are way above middle class
    in aud especially sydney/melbourne or mining, 100k is kinda average


    oh ya.. lets talk havard.

    here is cost of attendance for havard most prestiougues degree.. harvard law.
    Cost of Attendance | Harvard Law School


    $95k for 9 months.. cheap as chips.

    wanna study medical degree from columbia ?
    Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons — $230,536 Doctor of Medicine (dont forget you need a degree prior to this)

    at the end of the day. i stand by my point if you are rich it dont matter your world is your oyster,


    Australia ranks fifth in literacy and 13th in numeracy, says OECD

    australia ranks above us in numeracy and literacy, thats all u need to know about education system. for the average joe

    medical in australia you have to wait for someone to help you if you cant afford private. at least you get help /?

    what do they do if u dont have private in america. ?
     
    Last edited: 31st Aug, 2018
  13. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    This will probably be my last post as this thread is getting a bit pointless now

    You don't think it's weird that the poorer European countries can afford or prioritise something that a richer country can't?

    No the fees are on a sliding scale according to income. Read the link I posted. Full fees are only paid by wealthy families. Most students get some financial aid

    Lol Macquarie University is 260k AUD. I know which i would prefer if I had the cash and inclination
     
  14. icic

    icic Well-Known Member

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    I am kinda annoyed when economists say Sydney is x% over priced. At the end of the day its all demand and supply. Compare New York to Sydney is Apple to Cherry, completely pointless. Bigger doesn't mean better and or more expensive. We can counter argue that if Australia allows foreigners to buy any type of properties like the US it could even go up much much more than NY or SF, thats because the demand to live here is much higher than people wanting to live in the US per capital bases.
     
  15. virhlpool

    virhlpool Well-Known Member

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    More than demand it's supply issue. There is abundance of housing supply in the US, while we have it restricted by govt.
     
  16. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    Certainly not comparable with Sydney ,but was watching one of those house hunting international shows today and they were in Houston looking for a 2br/3br apartment /house.
    Couple of 2 bed apartments/condos in inner ring upmarket areas , one was pretty new for 235k USD the other was more of an slightly older townhouse in a pretty good location for 145k.
    Then they had a older house in a slightly further out location for 135K USD.
    How does that compare with other Aussie cities.
     
  17. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

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    If only supper was based on this my belly would be full at 9pm every night.

     
  18. John_BridgeToBricks

    John_BridgeToBricks Buyer's Agent Business Member

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    There are a few reasons why Sydney's properties are justifiably more expensive than many other cities.

    1) Generally, construction is good quality. Our houses tend to be brick compared to say, the United States, where the properties are often weatherboard.
    2) Our houses are detached, compared to units in many other cities such as HK, London etc.
    3) Our properties are larger, and we have space.

    All of the above does mean that Australian cities in general, and Sydney in particular, do command a premium. It certainly makes it difficult to compare to other countries.

    Kind regards,
    John
     
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  19. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.

    Compared to Europe, building standards in Australia lag a very, very long way behind. Most houses are poorly insulated, windows are almost never double glazed, and hydronic heating is rare.

    These things are all standard in the UK, and have been for years. OK, the climate is cooler, but more people die of the cold in Australia than they do in Sweden.
     
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  20. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    Well said. This is definitely the case in Canberra - almost everyone that I know has complained about the poor heat retention in houses and how you almost always need to have the heater on in winter or the house gets cold pretty quickly. You would think that double glazing and hydonic heating would be the standard at a minimum in a place like Canberra.

    My husband grew up in the US and Canada and couldn't believe what gets accepted here - many of these types of houses wouldn't even pass inspections over there.
     
    Last edited: 1st Sep, 2018
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