VIC Is Melb High Speed Rail a reality?

Discussion in 'Where to Buy' started by PropertyHawk, 5th Oct, 2018.

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  1. PropertyHawk

    PropertyHawk Member

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    9A10C993-6036-4882-B847-935EC09B0786.jpeg Hi PC’ers,
    An interesting article here https://bit.ly/2NnT2Bx
    with Melb opposition campaigners pledging $19b to a hi speed rail project, operational within four years.

    I know we’ve heard it all before, who thinks this idea actually has legs? Keen to hear your opinions ...
     
  2. jazzsidana

    jazzsidana Well-Known Member

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    One this is for sure -

    We need high speed rail to ease pressure over Melbourne hospitals, road infrastructure bla bla ...

    And building high speed rail/decentralising Melbourne is the key to that!!

    Government projects - Normally if it says 4yrs, safe to add another 4 on top (NBN is perfect example) ...

    But would be awesome if it gets kicked off and not to mention tourism promotion it will help with!!..

    Cheers,
     
  3. PropertyHawk

    PropertyHawk Member

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    What effect and on what timeline do you think it would have on property pricing in the regionals @jazzsidana ?
     
  4. Paul@PAS

    [email protected] Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Australia lags behind the world in rapid transport infrastructure. Italy, France, Switzerland, Germany, Benelux and Austria all combined smaller than even a small part of Australia. Even London and Europe are integrated. And then there is the best of the best - Japan. They all have highly integrated high speed rail. Almost nobody flies unless its across great distances and the route isnt supported by a simple rail route. (eg Rome to Paris)

    A simple trip like Rome to Venice by car is 540km and takes almost 6 hrs using tollroads. The tolls add $70AUD costs on fuel etc. A train takes 3hr 45min and costs less than the tolls.

    What our Govt needs to do is allow private companies to build and own railways to join major cities AND ONLY THEN allow regional centres to be added. eg a Sydney Melb route could take 3.5hrs direct and be faster than using an airplane. This would also free up capacity on existing major routes for freight. Any company that builds a passenger fast rail should be handed rights to operate the freight line too. And first crack at regional hubs from their line.

    Cost could be minimal for taxpayers. Dont let Govt build it !
     
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  5. WellKnow

    WellKnow Well-Known Member

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    No Victorian regional infrastructure is currently rated over 175kmp.(highest rated is the Geelong line) Buying rolling stock that does 200kmph is no problem, even the current Vlocity bogies are rated for +200kmph travel and current Vlocity is technically capable of 175kmph travel but to upgrade all infrastructure it will take atleast 10-15 years.

    So in 4 year maybe, Geelong line could be 200kmph either with an Upgraded Vlocity train or with a NGRT(mind you any rolling stock from design to passenger service is minimum 4 year leadtime) but there is no way all lines will be able to carry passengers at 200kmph.
     
  6. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    building it is easy.. sustaining it without subsidy is the issue.
    i very much doubt australian public transport can survive without subsidies.

    population too small, too big distance and not enough people using it
     
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  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    I imagine @JacM would have a bit to say on this topic.

    Geelong has already already boomed due to a combination of proximity to Melbourne, comparative housing prices, lifestyle. Ballarat is moving signficantly for the first time in years as Geelong starts to price people out. This can only be good for regional areas and Ballarat is already a major regional hub.
     
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  8. JacM

    JacM VIC Buyer's Agent - Melbourne, Geelong, Ballarat Business Member

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    On the one-hand, this would be very handy to the regionals - most notably those on the 2030 plan. This would assist link people to jobs in multiple major centres (and in the reverse, linking skilled people to employers), and make location-specific services such as hospitals more accessible to a wider community of people.

    On the other-hand, many a thing has been promised to voters in the lead-up to elections and then re-negged upon. The promise to deliver it "within 4 years" is no doubt a ploy to say at the end of the 4 years "We've started it... you'll have to vote us in for another term so we can finish it, or our opposition may can the project mid-way through". It is for this reason I would speculate that the coalition indeed intends to deliver this project, but to drag their heels a bit to spread it over two government terms rather than one.
     
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  9. PropertyHawk

    PropertyHawk Member

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    Interesting perspective @JacM I think you’re right that it’s a case of good intentions mixed with political manouvering- who knows how much of each though!
     
  10. PropertyHawk

    PropertyHawk Member

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    Cheers @Peter_Tersteeg i do hope Ballarats star continues to rise
     
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  11. albanga

    albanga Well-Known Member

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    Anytime I have ever voted passionately because a government promised to do something the Government has NEVER followed through.
     
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  12. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    Just don't necessarily assume fast = reliable

    Know someone that just got back from Germany - was using DB ICE to get to FRA airport - first train cancelled, next one 30 min late, and then had to change train due to lateness etc..... :(
    Not sure how V Line will compare....

    The Y-man
     
  13. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    Not going to happen. I think there's been at least 20 proposals of various high speed rail or similar ideas that have turned to nothing.

    The housing affordability argument doesn't make much sense anyway as most regional areas that are within ~2 hours of a capital city are already quite overpriced for what you get.
     
  14. KinG3o0o

    KinG3o0o Well-Known Member

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    Convineince without a business case - debt.

    hence 9/10 first world country is in debt.

    first world society third world mentality
     
  15. House

    House Well-Known Member

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    Apparently not, the dumbarses built the trains too heavy for the tracks :rolleyes:

    “JUST a week after it was discovered that NSW's $2 billion new train fleet will be too wide for the tunnels, the Queensland Government is facing the possibility of having to pull $4bn worth of new trains off the tracks because they are so badly designed, they're basically illegal”

    Where’s the facepalm emoji?!
     
  16. Omnidragon

    Omnidragon Well-Known Member

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    Noooo not reality. And opposition won’t get in for a long time. Victoria is the most left-aligned state in this country
     
  17. Omnidragon

    Omnidragon Well-Known Member

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    Least John Howard scrapes student union fees and put in workchoices. Oh and he then lost his seat
     
  18. kaibo

    kaibo Well-Known Member

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    don't think there will be many new infrastructure projects that have not been announced. Economy is going to crap (federal taxes) and decrease in house values and turnover going to affect (state and councils).

    So much fat has been added to the public sector with all the new hiring Police, hospitals etc and rolling over to union demands, Royal commission into aged care will drive up the amount the government needs to cough up. It will be hard for the Victorian state government to pay the recurring bills let alone fund infrastructure

    Bit negative I know but the writing is on the wall I reckon. We can all agree federal labour will not grow the pie
     
  19. hvdw87

    hvdw87 Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    My 2c’s. The only High Speed Rail that makes sense in Australia is Melbourne to Sydney (with maybe an intermediate stop at Canberra) and even then we struggle in terms of km/tax payer $. This is half the reason our current metro service is so heavily subsidised compared to the rest of the world.

    For the regionals in Victoria, some slight curve easing has been proposed on a couple of lines, but almost exclusively we will be limited to 160-200km/h. The other key issue here is that both the Geelong and Ballarat lines come in through Footscray. When you add the Airport Rail Link to that, you have a serious capacity issue. So even if you ran a faster train, it may end up sitting at a signal waiting for a gap in the metro service.

    In terms of government commitments, I see HSR very much in the same vein as the Suburban Rail Loop. Sure the government will do a feasibility study and thus meet their political commitment, but it isn’t happening. We need another Metro Tunnel (or two) rather than a Rail Loop.
     
  20. Cimbom

    Cimbom Well-Known Member

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    There are only about five cities in the whole world that make a profit on local passenger rail - Osaka, Hong Kong, Tokyo, London and Singapore. No country makes a profit on inter-city or national rail services - it's a public service. It does however return far, far more than say highways, even when accounting for the various taxes and fees paid. It is also far better for the environment and has added economic benefits such as increased tourism and the like.

    Further improving the service would actually result in increased fare recovery as more people would want to use it due to the better service. It is heavily subsidised at present because it's really a last resort option that people only use out of absolute necessity. Sydney has the highest use of public transport to commute to work in Australia and that is only used by 22% of people - a very low rate for a major city. Melbourne has the highest fare recovery in Australia and I would argue that it is probably the best system.
     
    Last edited: 28th Feb, 2019

Property listings out-paced buyer demand heading into Christmas with sellers also doing some price rationalisations according to Domain. The FOMO that dominated 2021 seems to be fading so it will be interesting to track early 2022 indicators.