Is it even possible these days to build a decent quality house?

I’m researching my options for a PPOR and hoping to make a decision within the next 12-18 months.

It has never crossed my mind to build as I have never liked the look of any of the new houses that I’ve seen and even worse are all the townhouses that are popping up everywhere that all look the same. The ones I’ve been inside of have the cheapest of cheap fittings.

I prefer the style of older houses, like 50’s & 60’s when the ceilings were higher and timber floors were normal. Not sure why these things are now considered extras or special.

If you want to build something that was of decent quality without being a top of the range palace, is it even possible? I get the impression that building these days is about cost cutting and producing mostly cheap and nasty housing.
Of course I realise that there’s exceptions.

I’m in Melbourne and I don’t know of any builders but I’ve certainly heard of many horror stories.

Interested in your thoughts

 

Yeah I'm not sure. Even if you were willing to pay top dollar, how do you stop the tradies from taking shortcuts in order to race over to the next project.

It probably all comes down to reputation, as it always has I suppose. How do you identify the reputable tradies? I have no advice on this unfortunately. Other than recommendations and long term connections, it's very hard to identify quality if you're coming in cold.

 

Most importantly, what is your budget?

For what size house?

Also, what do you mean by ‘decent quality’? Just high ceilings and floorboards?

 

Yes it's very possible to build a decent quality home with nice finishes these days. All comes down to are you willing to pay for it.

 

Yes it is possible. Best option is not to rely on a builder, but to engage a competent, skilled and cost conscious architect. You should achieve a design solution that is construction effective, and aesthetically to your taste. Have a quantity surveyor cost the design. Then tender to builders. You will have a budget/anticipated cost from the QS so will know if tender figures are fair. Then have the architect run contract administration to ensure quality, performance and control over variations and time. Do not leave it up to the builder (who may cut costs, use different materials/substitutions and pocket the difference. In short, yes it can be done

 

The difficulty is the massive lack of knowledge that builders and the general public have of building matters. I believe that some 50% of floor slabs in nsw are not put in to Australian standards. And compared to European standards our Aussie concreting standards leave little room for error. This figure is based on inspections of slabs by engineers that I know rather than certifiers.
Our water proofing industry, fireproofing and concreting is a joke and because the media, politicians, real estate agents etc are all tied into earning from the real estate industry we all have a vested interest in keeping silent the really big problems occurring in building new homes. There are some great builders out there. Then there are plenty of these well hidden stories. Metricon -

For a good quality build, pay for your own engineer to inspect the steel before concrete pour, the timber framing and the water proofing before tiling.

 

By decent quality I mean that I don’t want a house that looks like the average house you’d find in an estate in Point Cook, Pakenham or Narre Warren. Ones with doors and finishes that look like they’ve been found at the Bunnings clearance bin.

I’m not saying I want THE BEST but just built properly. Preferably with walls that don’t look like they’re made of cardboard like the rental I was just in.

As for price, of course I know it’s not going to be cheap but it shouldn’t cost the earth either as I’m not looking for a palace with a pool and tennis court.
Just 4 br and 2 bathrooms.

Do they only build in concrete slabs these days? No more stumps?

 

You can definitely build on stumps if you want to.

But it is not usual to put strip timber flooring directly on top of joists these days. (The surface can be damaged during construction, so usually yellow tongue would go down first and the timber would be added at the end. The order of construction is a bit different than it was in the 50s for various reasons...and timber wasn’t usually intended to be the final surface back then).

It sounds like you don’t want a ‘volume builder’ house from Metricon etc? I agree, they can look bland and boring. Mostly, people use these companies due to cost and convenience.

It’s very easy to get the building style and quality you want - just a matter of going to a designing builder or an architect. Or just buy a 50s or 60s house.

From my perspective ‘quality’ is also about designing / siting so the living areas get winter sun. That’s more important to me than having all ensuite bathrooms or stone benchtops.

 

Have a look at the builders who are award winners in your price range categories on the Master Builders or HIA websites. That will rule out the larger or project type builders.

 

Build in steel!

 

My experience has been that builders and even architects will tend to dissuade you from any ideas which add cost or especially effort from them.
I guess their experience is quoting for quality means the client cannot afford it and scales it all back.

 

Most of the actual day to day labour work on a residential building site is done by the same people, sub-contracted out via multiple layers before it hits a big brand name builder like "Metricon Homes" etc. The labour portion is the same: the electricians, roof tilers, gyprock plasterers, plumbers, etc. the tradies that do the physical work. It's the quality control and standards at each level up that it has to meet their criteria, or that of which the client/customer sets. I've lived with a roof tiler who performs the work under contract from many building companies - he has told me the differences are certain builders have more stringent quality standards and checks on the work performed, while others are happy to have to you knock out the work at speed to get as much done as quickly as possible. He has named certain builders that stood out to him as being a pain in the neck - as from his point of view he has to re-do work that isn't aesthetically pleasing even when he knows it does not affect functionality or structural integrity; because it did not meet the builder's standards. I took that to mean the more stringest construction companies are the ones enforcing standards and as a home owner that's the one I would want to do business with.

In this current market climate, I would go with the one with the ability to offer you a finished product within the specified timeframe; given the shortage of structural timber currently - the bigger builders still have the capability of acquiring the required timber - while the smaller players offer up excuses because they cannot get a hold of timber through their channels.

 

Talking about build quality, or lack thereof, check out the extremely poor quality of a brand new roof (somewhere in Victoria), the unfortunate property owner has posted in OzBargain forum.

Concerns about Roof Work on New Build

 

The challenge is that even if the builders construct it well, modern materials that are common to use can be pretty weak.

 

Project builders dont all build rubbish. Budget project builders may build to a price and then the degree of site supervision plays a part. A great supervisor may inspect often and refuse work until its done well. And wont use bad contractors. HIA and other "bespoke" builders will cost more absolutely but the finish may include solid timber flooring and carpentry, high ceilings and other finishes. Even wall cladding and thickness etc plays a part. Anyone who engages a builder for a budget finish then posts on Ozbargain suggests the root case may be their own expectations...and a poor building process.

eg Binet Homes v Metricon. It may come down to specifications too. Most builders have upgraded specs and finishes which made add to cost. These days project buiders use a lot of kits from frames and doors etc where a Binet customer build will use grades of solid costly timber rather than Hume door kits made of cardboard & laminates. Binet also hand cut roof frames and trusses. Project builders may have these pre-built and trucked to site with gang nailing and other elements engineered down to minimise weight and cost.

Its like shopping at Ikea. The furniture doesnt compare to a carpenter and hand made. People shop there because its cheap.

 

The issue is even for a budget finish, there are minimum standards and codes etc. which should be adhered to, but not done in too many cases (e.g. that roof). There is a massive information asymmetry between the builder and 99% of the clients and going for the cheapest option might turn out to be the most expensive in some cases.

 

Definitely possible its just a shame the media and constuction industry in general has taken a hit the last few years with price hikes, covid etc which meant many have really struggled and as a result so has the quality. This doesn't undermine the large number of builders that are still out there building extraordinary homes which are to a very very decent standard. Also an element of you get what you pay for.

 

good point and when i was in UK, i have worked on architecturally designed house projects and they are absolutely different to project home we see around Sydney .... the cost for builder is another thing where high cost directly related to quality of material, specification and workmanship used to build, however normal people whether they are on ozbargain or here probably don't understand difference between marine ply and water resistant ply...and there are many many dodgy contractor out there use this lack of understanding to their advantage in my opinion .... !

 

Its like pools and boats.

You can get a blue haven pool or you can get a serious high end pool. They are designed. And boats are only limited by budget and the mooring length and depth.

 

are they different from architecturally designed house projects in Sydney though?

project homes is mass production, so comes with all the mass production quality issues. that business model optimises everything to the n-th degree, and "everything" includes the time a SS can dedicate to each individual house to spot the quality issues as well as quality of trades used.