Is finance possible for an Aussie living overseas without payslips?

Discussion in 'Loans & Mortgage Brokers' started by Peter J, 30th Mar, 2017.

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  1. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    Hi.

    Hoping someone has some ideas.

    I saw in this thread that it is possible, but the problem I have is that I am a contractor (on a permanent long term overseas contract - 3 years so far and no end in sight), so pay slips are not possible from my employer. Also, being a digital nomad moving from country to country and not actually working in any country that I reside, I can not produce tax returns.

    A couple of years ago it was no problem - just needed a letter from my employer stating how long I have worked for them and my salary, and bank statements showing the money coming in each month (AUD).

    But now my broker has come back after trying a number of major banks saying with the tightening of the banks due to the dodgy Chinese laundered money coming in they have all said it is not possible without payslips or a tax return.

    I have $400,000 in a combination of equity & cash, but it seems that is irrelevant without pay slips(?).


    Hoping someone has some ideas here that might help.
     
  2. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit perplexed by the lack of payslips.

    It seems Iike an odd approach for a business to not give you some sort of electronic summary.
     
  3. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    I don't live in the country that my company is in - I work online.
    So I am technically a contractor and not an employee and do not get payslips.
    Also since I do not reside in Australia or the country that my company is in, I don't have tax returns.

    At this point I am thinking last resort is to go and live in Australia for 3 months just to pay tax there but that's an enormous inconvenience.

    Any thoughts on a way around this for financing?
     
  4. 158

    158 Well-Known Member

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    Something doesn't add up.

    You say you are a contractor right? So you invoice each week/fortnight/month?

    What country are you paying taxes in?

    If I didn't read it any better, it looks like you are basically working in a 'cash economy'. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    pinkboy
     
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  5. ellejay

    ellejay Well-Known Member

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    My hubby works online for an Aus company as a casual contractor and lives in NZ. Receives a payslip by email every fortnight. Tax returns in Aus and NZ. As above, you can't have it both ways.
     
  6. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    Correct regarding working in a cash economy.

    I don't want to get into the morals of this since it is not the point of this thread, but if you purchase a property and live in it for 3 months and then move out, you can claim that property as your primary residence for the next 6 years even though it is clearly not your primary residence - and you pay no CGT. No laws are broken in my case or in this case. So you definitely can have your cake and eat it too. You label it a loophole to make yourself feel better about doing the same thing. I live a permanent holiday and travel from country to country every few months so there is nowhere that I am a "resident" of to pay tax in. I hope that satisfies the moral issues so we can get back to the issue of financing.

    Wondering if if anyone has any ideas around this situation?
     
  7. 158

    158 Well-Known Member

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    You're a fraud wanting access to a regulated economy.

    Good luck.

    pinkboy
     
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  8. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    What the hell are you talking about?
    I move around constantly and don't reside in any country to pay taxes to.
    Where exactly is the fraud?
     
  9. ellejay

    ellejay Well-Known Member

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    How does the lender know what your income and outgoings are without a payslip?
     
  10. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    Thank you for staying on topic.
    Yes that is the problem I am facing and was wondering if anyone has any ideas regarding this other than coming back to Australia for 3 months which will be an enormous inconvenience.
     
  11. ellejay

    ellejay Well-Known Member

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    Considering much tighter lending practises are clipping the wings of those living, earning and paying taxes in Aus I don't fancy your chances. Life can be hugely inconvenient at times can't it? I would have thought moving countries every few months to avoid residency and taxes could also become a little inconvenient at times. How much money do you save, in the long term using this approach? I think your only option may be to go ligit for a while to secure your loan and buy into the grown up world. I'm not a broker though so have no idea. I'm sure there'll, be one along soon.

    You can't offset losses though, if you're not paying tax and would definitely be committing fraud if not paying tax on income.
     
  12. 158

    158 Well-Known Member

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    You don't earn a verifiable income.

    It's why drug dealers and assassins aren't ideal loan applicants.

    Even moving to Australia for 3 months won't help you. You will need to lodge tax returns *somewhere* as proof of income. You have to pay the fare if you want to ride the bus.


    pinkboy
     
  13. ellejay

    ellejay Well-Known Member

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    Hugely inconvenient thing these days that pesky banks have called anti money laundering procedures.
     
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  14. Peter J

    Peter J Member

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    I am not suffering for the sake of saving money. I actually enjoy my life much more this way.
    But yes I do save some money from tax but mainly I save a ton on cost of living because Australia is crazy expensive. A 3 bedroom house in these countries are about 1/4 of the cost of a 1 bd shoebox apartment in Sydney.

    Oh I pay taxes on my rental income on current property in Australia, so losses would come off that. I will definitely NOT be comitting fraid.

    Hmm yea going back to Australia for 3 months might be my only option. Hoping someone has some other ideas though.
     
  15. tobe

    tobe Well-Known Member

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    You can do an Australian tax return without living here. Most expats have to lodge a return both in the currency they are paid in and Aus.

    Have a chat to your accountant about it. Then you could get a loan.

    Otherwise google private loans or solicitors loans. You might find something short term with interest rates around 10 to 15%.


    Are you never planning on coming back to Australia? Who advised you you don't have to pay tax?
     
  16. Marg4000

    Marg4000 Well-Known Member

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    So you are lodging a tax return in Australia?

    But not declaring income???
    Marg
     
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  17. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Even Google, Microsoft etc pay tax in the country that they ultimately reside (some tax haven in the Pacific Ocean) however they have arrangements to have expenses/costs equalling the income that they derive in the country of the original sales.
     
  18. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    I reside in a country and do work as a contractor but not actually working in any country that I reside.... It could easily be argued in most countries you have created a permanent establishment for the company. You could be personally liable for all the company acts and income tax. Movements of currency between third party nations can then be a financial crime. All because you have a laptop and an apartment. Sadly most countries treat this as grounds to detain and deport and no notice is given and family separation occurs. That is common is Asia although they also love detention for long periods without access to legal advice.

    International tax treaties (if you are in one of those countries) adopts the view that the country where you reside may tax income. Non OECD treaty countries also exist but that creates more of a problem as double tax isnt protected. (And often is what gets alleged)

    It is very complex and have only twice in my life dealt with clients who have explored their complex tax issues and learned that neither country wanted to tax anything. These are rare exceptions and complex and generally timing issues are involved. Generally it works the other way - Until someone says they wont tax income you should assume they all do.

    One day you could be detailed at a border and face a very tough time. Carrying a laptop without a carnet is often the start.
     
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  19. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    You are probably illegally evading taxes in more than 1 country. You might even be a tax resident of Australia if you do not have a permanent home in another country. Have you sought legal advice on this?

    And then there are the immigration laws of the countries you are working in - do you have a visa which allows you to work?

    Without proof of income you will not be able to get finance in Australia.
     
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  20. luckyone

    luckyone Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't you do a low doc loan so you don't have to prove your income?
     

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