Ironfish Joseph Chou

Hi All,

I did a quick search didn't find a lot of results, anyone had recent dealings with Ironfish or companies owned by Joseph Chou? From what I can see they develop new high rise and sell OTP, not sure if there is more to it than that or they are just straight developers? From a google search the lack of negative reports is either a sign of high quality builds or high grade seo services. Not sure which.

Matt

 

Not dealt with that person specifically, but you should be careful about ironfish. They take you in for a goal setting session / mentor session, suggest that (regardless of your circumstances) you should buy one of their OTP developments. They then handle both the sale and the property management.

Here's someone else's post from Facebook (removed name for privacy)

 

I bought my OTP through them a few months ago and it was a good experience. They sit you down and ask about your goals, expected outcome and how they're there to help. The agent did push the tax benefits etc and how it would be mine for only $50/wk. Stuck with the basics and he didn't hype property as much as expected.

The agent calls me every every now and again asking how I'm going even though he knows I can't buy for another year or so and I definitely won't be buying OTP next time or recommending it to friends. He has a sizable portfolio (didn't bat an eyelid when I asked for proof) and still happily answers my myriad of random questions.

They work commission only (5% going off mine) and think Joseph gets another 5%. Apparently developers bring the deals to them and they do all the selling/marketing.

As for the under valuation... That can happen to any OTP so you can't blame IF for that. The majority of OTP buyers assume it'll be worth more than what they bought for. I'd also bet the guy didn't do his own DD or homework on the builder etc. I'm planning for the worst regardless so I've already started putting away $400/wk just in case. If all goes well, I've got my deposit saved for another IP.

 

Have attended his seminar before. Not worser than any other OTP sellers for highrise apartments, all the same recipe for disaster.

 

I have been to one of their seminars and did a 1 on 1 session. Have heard both good and bad, but in very small quantities of each. They make property investment sound easy and safe, almost never mentioning anything bad about it. Definitely do your homework/DD.

 

I won't comment but I think whatever they offer, one can do it self. Nothing special or extra they offer that you can't do.

 

Thanks all that is helpful - so is the general idea that they are mortgage brokers and selling for developers or are they building these things themselves?

 

Brokers financing buyers onto their own developments, selling them and managing them afterwards

 

Ah that makes most sense. Thanks @D.T.

 

Just another channel to market OTP for developers... nothing new. Few friends use them.

 

So much more homework required with OTP stuff.

Need to ensure that they are building the right product for the area and that there is not an oversupply of the same product.

The biggest risk IMO is market forces, and therefore the valuations may come in lower than expected outcome. If they come under you have to cough up the difference.

OTP works best when you buy at the early stages of the rising market.

There is a thread on EOS armchair developments, this was a disaster, because everything went wrong, and that is another major issue you have no control, so if there are delays, or building blow outs etc. you will be wearing it.

This is what happened to those who invested in EOS.
So basically the timing was correct but this group lacked experience and timing/building/cost blow outs has killed any profit and has cost huge delays and during this period the market turned from boom to bust. It really could not get much worse unfortunately

MTR

 

Would agree with all that @MTR

So the reason I ask and started this post was to check them out as they asked to speak with me, it was booked in for today. Results are fairly close to what was described, fees come in form of sales commissions, they develop some themselves and also choose other dev stock, they are adamant that they are on the side of the buyer and they did seem to have a grasp of national property cycles, clearly stating they are not advocating Sydney unless the client really really wants it, most of their stock currently appears to be in Bris. They said some BA's have taken client's money and also a fee from them, which I declined. I suggested if they want market intel or need a good BA to find them sites for future developments I am happy to take them on as a client for my usual fees.

 

One stop shop which pushes OTP all day long. I've had client's show me the presentation and materials they've received before - basically told that buying old stock is BAD, new stock is GOOD.

They're not a special type of evil, just the usual OTP business selling stock which may not have any real long term value.

 

Why would you use them? Why would you buy otp?

 

Why does anyone get sucked into these things? Trusting the wrong people and getting caught up in misinformation. Unfortunately the average Joe gets $$ in their eyes when they get told they'll save thousands a year in tax.

 

Which you do

But education will reveal more...Many threads on OTP and my response to all OTP threads is 'Just another reason why I wouldn't touch OTP'.

 

I have met these people.

They are very strong in the Chinese market. They have a cultural sensitivity to this market (which I do not) and not many others have.

They were quite passionate about new apartments simply because it gives you access to better areas for a lower price. They have a number of reasons for their passion and I think they were genuinely convinced they were helping.

I have never personally dealt with them - but I am also waiting out the Perth cycle to turn properly before I do anything.

 

Any buyers agent who even mentions these marketing companies and im out the door.