Education & Work I'm all for Safe Schools but ...

I had a unisex toilet at work once and it was fine. Only used by a handful of people. Ive used unisex toilets in bars and clubs before and that wasnt great. I like a women only public toilet.

But yes, i think the answer might be more non gendered toilets. People with disabilities already have to use a unisex facility. Also, makes it easier for parents of younger children.

 

I don't think it is a big deal. A lot of the schools that are doing this still have male and female only toilets, but also have a unisex option as well. The kids themselves pick where they go.
Our school is catholic, yet even it has some unisex toilets and kids are allowed to wear either gender uniform, so long as it is uniform. A lot of the girls chose to wear the boys uniforms. The toilets options allow for those students who may have additional needs too and require assistance for whatever reason.

It isn't just about transgender either, some people are intrasex and have no clear gender determination.

Safety of students in the toilets is always an issue, regardless of gender assignment. And many schools have in place rules about usage that require kids to go in pairs and such. Lets face it, a sign on the door isn't going to stop someone with ill intent.

 

I cant speak for the whole of the 'emotional, hypocritical, regressive left', but i certainly distinguish between sex and gender. superior strength would be a biological difference between the sexes. How that athlete dresses for instance, would be a gendered difference.

By the way, i find your hostile posting style quite emotional.

 

Gender is a social construct. Society and culture create and define gender roles. A boy is expected to act like a boy; in other words be 'masculine'. Masculinity includes liking blue, playing with trucks, a bit of roughhousing, energetic, given to physical play. Girls are expected to be 'feminine': like pink, be submissive, quieter, introspective, gentle and pretty.

When a child doesn't 'fit' into either of these boxes, they are made to feel that there must be something wrong with them.

Transgender simply entrenches and reinforces those gender roles. It frees none of us, least of all kids who need to be allowed to be themselves. If society allowed boys to like pink and wear skirts, they wouldn't feel the need to take hormones that mess them up for live and have bits of their bodies lopped off. If girls were allowed to be butch without being ostracized , they wouldn't feel the need to transition.

There's a worldwide push to transition young kids who are confused about their 'gender'. When children are still trying to find their feet, trying to figure out who they are, why are we foisting drugs upon them that can make them sterile; changes which cannot be unmade?

I agree: most have been through a lot. Yes, there is a lot of societal discrimination and these people are assaulted and killed at high rates -- by homophobic men.

If you've worked with transgender adults, you would know about the studies of Blanchard and Bailey, stating that trans women, for the most part, fall into one of two categories: gay or autogynephilic.

I too know trans women. They've suffered more than most. They've been beaten by strangers (homophobes). None of them want to infringe upon girls' safe spaces. I would share a bathroom with any of them in a heart beat but I KNOW them. But would I be happy for any man dressed as a women, identifying as a woman, to come into women's toilets, no.

Trans women commit crimes at the same rates as do normal men. "male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality." Recently there was a case of a woman who questioned a man who had entered the women's bathroom in female attire. He then knocked her teeth out for daring to ask him what he was doing there.

@Xenia I agree: a unisex toilet being made available to students is a good idea. However, as in the case of like Lila Perry, some insist on using girls' toilets, even when they've been given unisex facilities. Lila Perry identified as a gay boy, before he decided he would be a girl. 200 Students stage Walk Out in support of Girls Rights

 

Unfortunately, the trans activists use this argument a lot. In fact, intrasex is a different issue altogether and intrasex people find their being used in these issues as offensive.

 

In fact, it is what you call the 'Regressive Left' that is behind the push to put boys into girls toilets. You are quite mistaken. The Left buys into queer theory, which is all about how someone identifies; that they are what they feel. You are confused and have your theories mixed up.

 

Most children who identify as something else--whether it be the opposite sex, or a giraffe, or a truck--do grow out of it. Why aren't we letting children just be ... children? When I was a child I thought I was a mermaid. By your thinking, the medical profession should have cut half my body off and given me a fish tail. I grew out of it.

 

That was my point, that there are different issues that need to be addressed.
Our school is catholic, not exactly welcoming of the of anything that is not the norm. Yet even this school and the church that is attached recognise the need to go beyond the historical norm in this. There is actually a intersex child at the school, and having unisex toilets in addition to gendered toilets resolved a lot of issues of "concerned parents".
But it has also been useful for those students with disabilities in need of assistance and for families attending school and church functions with young children. There have been lots of benefits, far beyond the simple issue of 'trangender'.

 

The only issue is the people who choose to turn it into an issue. It is a toilet. Everyone should be able to go to the toilet.

 

Geez, how many night clubs have I gone into where although the facilities have separate entries are just one big happy room? Stalls to the left, urinal to the right.

PS: last time I looked, men & women aren't the same

 

I've found trees not to discriminate

 

Non-gender-comforming kids should have their own safe spaces. I'm not questioning that. But why should they be at the expense of girls? I am saying that girls also are entitled to safe spaces.

Boys who've had no surgery and still have male body parts are now insisting that having unisex change rooms, toilets and facilities are not enough; they demand to be in change rooms with girls. This happened at Hillsboro High School in Missouri where Lila Perry insisted on being with the girls in their change rooms while they undressed. These girls' concern about their discomfort at having to disrobe in front of a boy were dismissed. Students protest transgender classmate's use of girl's locker room | Fox News


Men like Stefoknee (who left his wife and seven children to live as a five-year-old girl) are entitled to use women's bathrooms. Stefonknee has been 'adopted' by a couple and he plays with their grandchildren. He and his 'adopted' parents also have sex--with each other..

It would bother most women. If a woman sees a man in the female toilets, there is understandably concern.

 

Yes, it is an issue for girls, who for the most part, do not want to share toilet space with males. Why aren't we listening to our girls? Why are we ignoring their rights?

 

Yes, everyone should be able to go the toilet assigned to their sex. Why do some men insist that society buy into their delusion and then get violent when we don't? Take Patrick Hagan. He is a 6 foot 3 martial arts expert and a transwoman. When a woman asked him what he was doing in a woman's bathroom he knocked out five of her teeth and she was left with $6,000 in medical expenses.






The number of children referred to the NHS with gender identity issues has increased 930% in six years, according to figures obtained by the BBC. What are we doing to our kids?

 

Safe School Coalition is funded by the government to the tune of $8 million--of taxpayers' money. This group is pushing queer theory on to our kids and pushing schools to allow boys to play girls' sports and use girls' change rooms. It's a pity that Safe Schools thinks only boys should be safe.

 

One perspective.

I worked in a large high school. We had a transgender student who transitioned from male to female. Finished the term as a boy and started the next as a girl.

To all appearances s/he was a girl and was allowed to use a designated unisex staff toilet. The student had parental support and considerable medical and psychological assistance and the school was able to accommodate that particular student's situation.

To their credit, the other students took it as nothing unusual and were completely unfazed.
Marg

 

I get it: you support the government spending $8 million on a program asking schools to put boys into girls toilets and change rooms. I get it: you support Queer Theory, although you don't know much about it. But, hey, if it means feeding a multi-million dollar medical industry that bases its profits on making kids transition WAY before they even know who they are, good business hey! Because why should we give a damn about our children if it means more profit for big business, right?

There are decades of research, comprising multiple studies, indicating that most kids change their minds: something like 80-98% of them, depending on the study:

Multiple longitudinal studies provide evidence that gender-atypical behavior in childhood often leads to a homosexual orientation in adulthood, but only in 2.5% to 20% of cases to a persistent gender identity disorder. Even among children who manifest a major degree of discomfort with their own sex, including an aversion to their own genitalia (GID in the strict sense), only a minority go on to an irreversible development of transsexualism.

"Zero, zilch, nada" evidence to support gender transition of young children

 

@Marg4000 When my daughter was in primary school, her best friend was a little boy who insisted that his parents call him 'she'. He wore only girls' clothes--dresses and skirts. Most days he wore a pink tulle tutu, pink ballet flats, a pink diamante-encrusted top and a tiara. All the children accepted him; there was no bullying. He had fabulous parents who let him be him. Had he been growing up today, I have no doubt the parents would be pressured to accept him as a girl and put him on hormone blockers. That boy is now a beautiful young man who happens to be gay.

 

Maybe the study had that result because as children the participants weren't allowed to live normally as the gender they identified with? (I'm just guessing it's a longitudinal study over 20 years old?).
Maybe that's why transgender people are also over represented in crime stats and other stuff?


To me it's what's the greater harm? I don't think the majority of girls, who 'fit in' are going to be fazed by sharing a bathroom.

The harm to transgender kids is pretty horrendous. I'm sure they are over represented in suidcide mental health issues social exclusion etc etc.

I don't know when the right time is for these young people to transition with surgery or hormones etc. I doubt having society pick on them less would change their overall numbers or proportion of the population. I do think a more inclusive society and one that thought about gender in less black and white terms would be a much nicer society to live in.

 

The greater harm is to women and girls. If you look at one of my previous posts, you will see that women can be and are assaulted in female bathrooms by men dressed as women.

Pre-pubescent and adolescent girls need their privacy in change rooms.

There is no harm to trans women using unisex bathrooms. However, often they refuse to.