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Illegal Granny Flat

Discussion in 'Renovation & Home Improvement' started by Tim & Chrissy, 18th Jan, 2016.

  1. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    I am looking at a dual occupancy property at the moment. The council allows dual occupancy however the owner didn't seek approval to turn the garage into a flat.

    I have looked at the council rules around secondary dwellings and this is on an area where they are 'self assessible'. The only thing close to a definition of self assessible I could find related to driveways which only required a form be submitted to council notifying them of the work.

    Firstly, does anyone have a clear definition of what self assessment entails?

    Second, I am concerned that if inspections are required I can't prove waterproofing was completed, fyrchek gyprock used where required (not sure if this will even apply) etc etc.

    Third, has anyone obtained approval for a secondary dwelling after the fact for a property in any of the Brisbane metro councils that allow dual occ?
     
    Last edited: 18th Jan, 2016
  2. RPI

    RPI Property Lawyer, Town Planner Business Member

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    Hi
    Brisbane City council does not allow you to rent out the property as dual occ or secondary dwellings. You might be able to get through as rooming accommodation. If you are changing from a class 10 building (garage) to a class 1a (house) you may as well try to go a class 1(b).
     
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  3. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    It's not in BCC area. They are definately allowed and the property is zoned for dual occ.

    I'm just not sure about the self assessible in's and out's, and getting approval after the fact.

    I was recently involved in a development in Chipendale, Sydney and the council certifier wanted to see fyrchek gyrock on common dividing wall before painting and waterproofing in bathroom before tiling.

    Obviously I can't show those things on this property without ripping out and re-doing the bathroom and any walls that require fyrchek.
     
  4. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Where is this one located?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4th Nov, 2016
  5. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    Moreton Bay CC again, pretty confident I will stick to that area until I buy (hopefully within the next month!).

    Getting tired of the search so I'm hoping this place stacks up.
     
  6. RetireRich101

    RetireRich101 Well-Known Member

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    while the property allows dual occ or secondary, you need to check if it allows seperate households that can be rented out seperatly. I believe RPI response to BCC is similar to MRBC..
     
  7. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    From feb 1 is doesn't have to be.

    The information on this page will be updated for the commencement of the MBRC Planning Scheme on 1 February 2016. The following information is provided as guidance to the adopted planning scheme.

    MBRC Planning Scheme - Secondary dwelling

    The State Government defines a Secondary dwelling as part of a dwelling house. A secondary dwelling is used in conjunction with, and is subordinate to, a dwelling house on the same lot. The term replaces ‘dependent person’s accommodation’, ‘associated unit’ and ‘relative’s accommodation’ used in the Caboolture, Pine Rivers and Redcliffe planning schemes.

    A Secondary dwelling may be free standing or constructed under or attached to a Dwelling house. It must:

    be substantially smaller in size to the main house on the property (maximum GFA of 45m2, 55m2 or 100m2, depending on the zone and precinct);be on the same lot as the main house. It cannot be subdivided or community titled at a later date; andretain a relationship and association with the main house, with the two households making common provision for essentials for living (e.g. the sharing of utility bills, such as electricity and water).

    Note: The secondary dwelling can be separately leased from the primary dwelling
     
    Last edited: 19th Jan, 2016
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  8. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Ah Ok.
    Did you contact the council to ask them what this self assessment means?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4th Nov, 2016
  9. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    I was going to this morning but then I found an explanation of it. It literally means no application to council. You just ensure the build complies with their requirements and thats it. That would never happen in Sydney!

    I'm thinking I'll get a builder through or see if the building inspector can confirm it's all compliant.
     
  10. RPI

    RPI Property Lawyer, Town Planner Business Member

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    Private Certifier still has to approve the plans and do inspections (unless engineer does some of the inspections). They still submit plans to council for their records. Possible also a build over sewer or build over stormwater application if you come close to that infrastructure.
     
  11. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    This is all that is on the Moreton Bay website:

    Do I need Council approval?

    In most cases, Council approval is not required for a Secondary dwelling. Dwelling houses with Secondary dwellings are considered self-assessable development in a number of zones. The following table outlines the level of assessment (type of application needed, if any) as well as the relevant code in the planning scheme containing the assessment criteria (requirements) for Secondary dwellings.

    Self-assessable development does not require development approval from Council provided it complies with the relevant assessment criteria. If the proposal does not comply with the relevant criteria, a development application must be lodged with Council for approval.

    Zone
    General residential zone

    Precinct
    All precincts

    Assessment Level
    Self-assessable if complying with relevant self-assessment criteria

    Assessment Criteria
    Dwelling house code (section 9.3.1)

    (Sorry, copy and paste doesn't work well on mobile and I can't copy and paste the page link, it gives me some sort of error)
     
  12. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    Are you also a Private Certifier?
     
  13. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    That is why you get a certifier, so you don't need council approval. Council approval means you need a DA.
     
  14. RPI

    RPI Property Lawyer, Town Planner Business Member

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    No, not a private certifier.

    BIZ is spot on. It means that you don't need Development Approval if you can demonstrate to the certifier that it meets the self assess criteria. You still need Building Approval
     
  15. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    Got it. For a summary page it is clear as mud. I have been trawling through the full documents, facts sheets and summaries and nothing about private certification has come up, just constant references to self assessment without clearly defining what self assessment entails.

    Is this a similar set up to Sydney where you can choose to go through the state governments SEPP with private certification or the local council?
     
  16. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Regarding the property you are looking to buy, you're going to struggle getting it approved unless you find a certifier who turns a blind eye. A lot needs to be done to a garage to turn it into a habbitable structure (less in qld than nsw but still a lot) and if they didn't go to the trouble of getting it approved it is unlikely it was done properly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4th Nov, 2016
  17. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    I know it needs a firewall, one of my main concerns is the waterproofing - owner doesn't have a certificate, they are chasing up the 'builder'
     
  18. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    Firewall isn't just a sheet of frychek gyprock. You literally need to separate all the overlapping roof, wall frames etc then run a firewall. Garage slabs are a different spec to class 1a structures. Termite barrier, waterproofing as you are chasing up, ceiling height etc etc.
     
  19. Tim & Chrissy

    Tim & Chrissy Well-Known Member

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    Starting to think I might let this one go. It's achieving a 6.3% yield with potential for 6.8% but thats all out the window if I'm looking at ripping out the bathroom, firewall etc.

    I don't know how much longer I can keep up search. Finance took 11 months and I can't keep investing unless the next buy is high yield, which seems to be as rare as hens teeth.
    I'm also struggling time wise, I'm cooking and plating up dinner for the four kids inbetween replying on the forum at the moment :confused:
     
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  20. Biz

    Biz Well-Known Member

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    Haha don't worry mate I know what you are going through.

    The problem with duel occs is they are generally put together by dodgy brothers Pty Ltd. The ones that are done properly are rare and when they come on to the market the vendors want top dollar. 6.3% yield isn't stellar either. I would want min 7% in an average area. I just completed one that is yielding 7.5% in Newcastle.

    I have three I have done myself, all detached, all done properly. Just couldn't find what I wanted so I bought the house and then organised the certifier, builder etc.
     
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