If NG was to be removed what to do about CGT

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by Big Will, 8th Jan, 2018.

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Choice

  1. Keep CGT for IPs

  2. Remove CGT for IPs

  3. Add CGT for PPORs

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  1. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    I think all taxes are un-reasonable (especially stamp duty and land tax) but I keep coughing up the moolah and lots of it!!!
     
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  2. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    Do I want people to be tax not at all.

    However in the scenario two people invested the same amount of capital yet someone is in a far better position and had a better lifestyle.

    So if we remove NG we should remove CGT or if we give NG to PPOR then start charging them CGT.

    What you are talking about is remove NG and keep CGT for IPs and keep no CGT for PPOR owners - I think this isn't a level playing field and couple C is in an even worse spot.

    I would be happy to not have NG if I don't have to pay CGT :) - been this way before...
     
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  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This is where we differ, I don't agree with there being a level playing field between investors and home buyers. I explained that at the start of the thread:
    @Big Will, should investors and drinkers have equal access to clean drinking water (when the investor is only there to make profit/provide for their future), no matter what the outcome to the drinkers who may be unable to afford it? If so, then it's pointless discussing further. We just have different opinions and neither is likely to change.
     
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  4. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    I agree we will never agree as you feel everyone who gives you anecdotal evidence as the minority even though and putting all in bold doesn't give you post any further emphasis or importance.

    Our houses are larger and yet have fewer people in them - maybe it isn't an affordability issue but rather a mindset/expectation issue.

    4102.0 - Australian Social Trends, 1994

    [​IMG]

    Using your new scenario... Should a person who drank water from the 300L water tank (Suburb A) and then upgraded to a 600L tank (suburb C) but decided to go back to the original 300L (suburb a) keep the water or cash of the extra 300L?

    Just because you upgrade the tank doesn't mean you need it and you are having a better lifestyle by being better hydrated/nicer lawns than the 300L person so should the 600L person take 150L worth of bottle water to the 300L tank person to keep it equal?
     
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  5. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    Guest went to get some more information as I thought 3-4 times a family will buy.

    How Many Times Does The Average Person Move?

    An average American (wouldn't think to different to us) will move 11.3x in their life.

    We can rule out the first 20 years typically as people wouldn't have funds to buy but I bought my first home at 25 that will mean I will move on average 7x (1st for moving into PPOR so 6 more). That would mean likely 5 side/upgrades and 1 downgrade.

    Even at 40 (typically would be in PPOR by then) you still have 3 more moves (2 upgrades and 1 downsize?)



    [​IMG]

    Weird minority here... almost feels like a majority.
     
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  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    & you think people should have to pay CGT on any gains with every move. 7x in a lifetime. That is nuts.

    Bolded for importance ;)
     
  7. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    Of course, why not? Something has to give somewhere. You can't have it all at the same time. At least not in very high demand cities where so many people want to live. Tbh doesn't matter what you or I think is 'right', the simple reality is very high demand areas will NEVER be accessible to all because prices will always be high. The demand/supply equation will make sure of this.
     
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  8. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    You think someone upgrading their house is entitled to more money than someone who had a worse lifestyle to get ahead? That is nuts.

    Bolded and underlined as mine is more important
    ;)

    Did I mention I have a bigger red button than yours and mine works?
     
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  9. Sackie

    Sackie Well-Known Member

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    trump.jpg

    :D
     
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  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would be open to a tax on gains if someone permanently moves to a cheaper home or rental, but that starts to get very complicated to manage and I think tax should be kept simple where possible.

    You seem to like taxing people a lot and in complicated ways, especially when they are just trying to move homes, which you would levy on them 7x in a lifetime. I don't think we are going to come to an agreement here.
     
  11. Big Will

    Big Will Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this or is it disagree
     
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  12. Stoffo

    Stoffo Well-Known Member

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    I started to read this thread, but found i want to reply to every second post :eek:
    It's the AUSTRALIA TAX :mad: (tax everything until after death)
    GOVCO only change taxation rules for more revenue to hide their incompetence and miss management :p

    Whom should define the definition of "rich" ?
    I owe LOTS, but own 60%, i have never been married or divorced, nor had children, so does money, children or life experience make one rich ?????

    Compare the pair, chris1 & chris 2 (yep real story)
    Both were unemployed for a while
    1 had bought a house, went without and struggled to build equity (me)
    2 rented and got rent assistance
    1&2 got the same jobs, 1 was driven while 2 was quiet.
    2 got promoted and earnt more while renting, went on a surfing trip each year, yet had kids
    1 worked two jobs and eventually built some equity and upgraded his ppor (hoping for prince Charming/Cinderella o_O )
    2 actually earnt more PA due to promotion.
    1 saved & now has an IP, pays tax and stamps, and still counts his cents
    2 still rents and claims help (while still holidaying most years)
    1 hopes to retire self funded and enjoy retirement
    2 is expecting the pension and gov housing
    1 will prob die die due to stress (all the changing rules)
    2 had an awesome existance and completed his bucket list !
    1 paid twice as much tax in his lifetime
    2 still has his hand out......
    With some, the more you help the more they expect (entitlement)

    Not all of us are a Packer or Rinehart :rolleyes:
    Yet we on average pay more tax, all the while trying to get ahead, to what end...... (o_Owork-life balance)
     
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  13. Journeyman

    Journeyman Well-Known Member

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    What's funny about this back and forth good humoured argument is that you are both focussed on the merits of a subjective opinion.

    I spend more time working out how to pay allot less tax. CGT, income, consumption etc.... Consumption tax is the hardest.
     
  14. Lemmy a fiver

    Lemmy a fiver Well-Known Member

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    Just remember not to steal,
    ......the Government hates competition afterall.
     
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