Crypto I just spoke to the ATO about Cryptocurrencies

Discussion in 'Other Asset Classes' started by hammer, 30th Jan, 2018.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
Tags:
  1. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    2,863
    Location:
    Darwin
    The whole tax and crypto thing is still a bit murky...so I set up a callback and spoke to a human.

    Anyway, this is the deal from the horse's mouth..

    We already know that if you spend the crypto for personal use that you're not taxed. BUT it turns out if you spend it using a coinjar eftpos card or pay a credit card off using BPAY. Then that counts as paying via crypto, despite the fact that technically the payment is converted into AUD first.

    This is a game-changer.

    Couple of gotchas. Initial investment needs to have been lower than 10k AUD. Expenses must be for personal use....no BPAYING into vanguard share funds, buying gold or paying IP expenses.

    However paying PPOR expenses should be just fine.

    This is the best news I've had all day... :)

    They also said that they will be reviewing their stance on crypto and have a new advice out in March.

    This is what I heard from the ATO. Do your own research. This is not advice.

    @chylld @Westie @eletronic_exp0430 @Kinnon @KayTea
     
    hammer, 30th Jan, 2018
    #1
    Player, samiam, Xenia and 8 others like this.
  2. chylld

    chylld Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,701
    Location:
    Sydney
    This is great :) A little less worried about future disposal of my crypto billions.

    My concern at the moment though is CG incurred from selling one coin for another, as my CG tally so far is already "significant."
     
    chylld, 30th Jan, 2018
    #2
  3. Westie

    Westie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2017
    Posts:
    1,138
    Location:
    Melbourne
    With the expenses being for personal use bit, did they clarify what's classed as personal use with regards to crypto? How about a Woolies gift card or paying a utility bill or buying a suit?
     
    Westie, 30th Jan, 2018
    #3
  4. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    2,863
    Location:
    Darwin

    All personal. As long as the bill is for personal use not business, you're good.
     
    hammer, 30th Jan, 2018
    #4
  5. Westie

    Westie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2017
    Posts:
    1,138
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Great!
     
    Westie, 30th Jan, 2018
    #5
  6. gman65

    gman65 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    23rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,805
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Still wouldn't preclude capital gain I would think... buy crypto at $5k.. Coin rises 60%. Spend $8k on "personal expenses". Still need to declare $3k capital gain.
     
    gman65, 30th Jan, 2018
    #6
  7. chylld

    chylld Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,701
    Location:
    Sydney
    I think the idea is that if you spend the appreciated coin directly (without selling it for another coin, or exchanging for explicit AUD) then any CG is ignored under personal use rules.
     
    chylld, 30th Jan, 2018
    #7
    samiam and hammer like this.
  8. Swuzz

    Swuzz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    30th Aug, 2017
    Posts:
    173
    Location:
    Melbourne
    cgt would be no different to eg ForEx gains on an o/s trip?
     
    Swuzz, 30th Jan, 2018
    #8
  9. chylld

    chylld Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    24th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    1,701
    Location:
    Sydney
    ... unless you spend the currency (what hammer is talking about in the OP)
     
    chylld, 30th Jan, 2018
    #9
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would wait for the advice in March before making assumptions & read the ruling I linked here:

    2340 on Twitter

    It would be very difficult to prove personal use IMO. Buying $9,999 in crypto then waiting for an ideal time (several years in the future) to cashout via spending the proceeds is not 'personal use'.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3rd Oct, 2021
    Guest, 30th Jan, 2018
    #10
    chylld likes this.
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    More here: Can cryptocurrency be a personal use asset? - ATO Community
     
    Guest, 2nd Mar, 2018
    #11