How would one deal with trying to negotiate and do well in investing, if they lack social skills...

Discussion in 'Investor Psychology & Mindset' started by Achimy, 20th Dec, 2015.

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  1. The Y-man

    The Y-man Moderator Staff Member

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    As others have said, no need to really relate with the agent.
    Turn up,look at property, say "How Much, and what's the settlement terms"
    Get as much info as they are willing to give, and that's it.
    :)

    If they want to sell, they'll do all the talking. You can stand and listen, but no need to say anything.

    If they really want to sell, they'll come chasing you, trying to get a word out of you.

    The Y-man
     
  2. Jamie Moore

    Jamie Moore MORTGAGE BROKER - AUSTRALIA WIDE Business Member

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    You don't seem to have that issue with writing. Your posts are succinct and coherent.

    Could you try and conduct your dealings via email instead?

    Admittedly - It doesn't help the immediate problem though and will probably just add to avoidance of "in person" social situations.

    Cheers

    Jamie
     
  3. sanj

    sanj Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    As silly as it may sound write down on a piece of paper what you'd want to ask an agent about a property if you didnt have to worry about getting anxious. It could be age, how long on market, vendors ideal settlement, whatever.

    Then just find random properties online and call the agents, trying to get as many questions answered as you can. If you find it getting a bit much or u getting anxioys excuse yourself, take a breather, look at what questions you managed to anwer and then go again.

    Youll soon find dealing with them to come a bit more naturally or at very least not be as daunting. Best wishes, hope it all works out for u.
     
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  4. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Spot on .

    Gaining good social skills is critical to having an enjoyable and productive life .

    First Barrier to change is recognising you have a problem . First Barrier passed .

    You're GP can organise a mental health car plan which can help cover the costs . Some GP wouldn't consider this worthy of a mental health plan bu many would .

    There are some basic concepts about improving your social competence .

    There is a great book by Dale Carnegie called How to win friends and influence people . It was written in the 1934 so even for me ( a baby boomer ) the real life examples he uses are old fashioned , but the basic principles are priceless .

    I didn't read it until my 40's and wish I'd read it about 25 years earlier .

    Cliff
     
  5. Xenia

    Xenia Well-Known Member

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    You will be absolutely fine.
    Who told you you have no charm? It's not true.
     
  6. PatsyStone

    PatsyStone Well-Known Member

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    Agree here. Your verbal
    Communication problems and all
    Else
    Extend beyond real estate negotiations .
    Might be beneficial to get support to work on particular issues.
    I was just thinking it's often what agents don't or won't tell you that can be of importance . Checking with councils to make certain of future developments etc and using a pest and building inspector will help you far more than charm.
    Repeat
    "And the last comparative sales in this street/area are ?
    If only you could see that being so young and healthy is a magnificent place to be in. Your options are many ..potential to burn. Smile
     
  7. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Well done on the savings your parents have done a very good job and maybe only later in life just how good the job they did,plus so much good advice from the medical people within this site,but just start some simple things in life,build yourself up wear your best shirt every time you leave the front door does not matter if it's S/H,and start saying to yourself this is going to be the best day of your life no matter what happens,i find with people who ever i meet even if they live in the near by river front parks or from bus drivers up if you just say Madame or Sir and a simple thankyou makes everyone important as you look into their eyes then over time you will build up your own style..
     
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  8. Achimy

    Achimy Member

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    This forum is full of amazing people. why aren't there more people like you guys, who listen, in real life!

    No one told me, but I'm aware enough to see that I don't since:
    a. extremely small number of friends, and I've noticed changes in my personality which could be leading to them becoming more distant.

    b. never had a girlfriend

    c. lack self-esteem/confidence.

    I know c is the likely cause of b, so I guess I'll be looking into solving it as best I can.

    Thanks! Yeah I think when I write about stuff I know about, with no fear of being rejected or receiving push back, I'm able to get my message across. And I have unlimited time to edit my writing :D

    Panic mode sets in when i get a follow up call or have to talk to someone! The world might end according to my brain. I have a very silly brain
     
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  9. Propertunity

    Propertunity Well-Known Member

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    OK I'm a Buyers Agent, so I declare I am biased.

    We have just purchased for a client who, to put it generally, was a high functioning autistic young man. The deal was he was very good at the written word, but would not take phone calls from us and had blown quite a number of negotiations with REAs on property he tried to buy from before engaging us.

    At least he was smart enough to realise he was failing on his own due to his (lack of) social skills. He was blowing all his credibility with agents and would have gotten no-where.

    It was a new challenge for us. Not totally unique though, as we have purchased a number of properties for people over the years without ever having met them or even heard the sound of their voice over the telephone.

    So I'm not saying the OP is autistic, but it might be worthwhile engaging an understanding BA if you are getting nowhere.
     
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  10. neK

    neK Well-Known Member

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    Hire a Buyers Agent.
    I've used Mr Fox aka Propertunity in the past.
    Great buyers agent and teacher.
    What you learn from him is worth just as much if not more. He's not just there to negotiate on your behalf. :)
     
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  11. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    +1

    And it's available for free download. Though you can pay for a copy on Kindle if you would like.
     
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  12. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Mortgage Broker Business Member

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    I know a few people who don't have very good social skills but have been able to build fanatastic portofolios.

    Their lack of social skills is often channeled into attention to detail and comprehensive analysis. They may not be great at talking to agents, but they are great at finding a good deal and recongising when the do find it. From there it's simply a matter of knowing what your figures are and making the offer - which can be done via email.

    I'd suggest the ability to spot a good deal is far more important than negotiating skills. Let's face it, agents negotiate all day, every day. They're better at it than most people anyway.

    If your anxiety is going to lead you to doubt yourself, then you're probably going to have to engage a BA. Take your time to make sure you are comfortable with them.
     
  13. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

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    Agents aren't charming. I have had them yell at me on the phone when my offer was too low. Sounds like you'll do well if you have the same attitude as they do. ;):D
     
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  14. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    Back to the original question re negotiating , I'd try and do everything you can , yourself.

    I'd use it as an exercise . Practice on properties you like , but can't afford and make offers you can afford .

    The best negotiating position to be in , is one you can walk away from . If you practice on the above type of property , watch how you react and how the agents react .

    Think through the types of responses you might get . Don't feel you have to rush an answer , take time to consider what you respond , or even just say " let me think about that "

    One of my favourite quotes comes from Winston Churchill who ( a chronic cigar smoker ) said . A cigar gives a wise man time to think and a fool something to suck .

    We did this in around 2000 . We were surprised at how low the counter offers to our low ball offers were.

    Some agents were dismissive and said they wouldn't pass it on . ( in NSW they have to ) I'd respond , very politely , " unless your vendor has told you not to , you have a legal obligation to pass it on "

    I'd sometimes use the line , " I realise it's worth more , but that's all I can afford ".

    Don't go around bagging , finding faults in the properties . The agents know all the flaws and some , and it doesn't get you in their good books ( not that low balling does ...) .

    I'm not aiming to have the agents as my best friend , but we've certainly picked up deals because we have been nice to agents.

    Cliff
     
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  15. Jkat

    Jkat Well-Known Member

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    It depends on where you live. If you are in NSW you can go see the GP and get what is called a Mental Health Care Plan (in different states they are called slightly different things) and this is where Medicare will pay (roughly $83) towards your psychology sessions for up to 10 sessions.

    Roughly, a psychologist would be between $150-$200 p/hr. The important thing is not the price but the relationship. Find one you feel comfortable with and that you can talk openly to.

    If you have private health insurance once your medicare sessions run out many health funds cover psychologists visits as well.
     
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  16. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

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    GP mental health care plans are funded through Medicare which is a federally funded program , so there is no state variation .

    There is another program for people who are financial challenged which is funded through Medicare locals called ATAPS , but there are tight qualifying criteria.

    What psychologists charge will depend on market forces and vary from areas to area and the length of their waiting list and how many negatively geared IP's they have .

    Cliff
     
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  17. PatsyStone

    PatsyStone Well-Known Member

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    Excellent points .
    It occurred to me at some point , a light bulb moment that I did not have to
    always make decisions on the spot.
    I did not always have to answer a question if I wasn't comfortable or sure at the time.
    It was a huge relief to response by saying "I need time to think about it / consider it.
    When pressured for a follow up call . A lock in time for a call to
    See how my considering is going .
    I reply No it's ok leave it with me . I will get back to you.
    Mind you if I'm not interested at all I say so there and then.
    I still suggest you seek a therapist for support and the learning of new skills .
    I would tell my new less confident retail sales staff if you don't have your own dialogue right now mimic mine or one of my other experienced sales ladies.
    Cliff has given you some good verbal responses to use.
    Im sure others here have excellent tips too.
    What a great bunch of people :)
     
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  18. Ace in the Hole

    Ace in the Hole Well-Known Member

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    We are all different with different personalities, you'll be fine.
    I'm 40 now, but was very similar to you when I was your age.
    a. Also had only a few friends, was very shy and avoided meeting new people, hated parties because of this and still do, very anti social...
    b. First girlfriend which didn't last too long at 21.
    c. Little confidence around people and on the phone.

    Smashing it now though although still have only a few friends I see very irregularly, hardly even annually, I'm a solo kind of guy and just not very social by personal preference.
    This is how I did it:
    1. Bodybuilding/Weight Training - Makes you feel good physically and gives and instant confidence boost as you gain strength/size, and carry yourself more confidently.This should help with the girlfriend issue too.
    2. I got into a sales assistant job as a trainee, (roofing/building materials), at 20 years old, pretty much by default as it's the only job I could get. This put me a bit out of my comfort zone both at the one day a week training and on the job, but it helped my confidence and experience in the long run.
    3. Listened to a lot of self development material over and over in those early years which set my mindset on the right path and also boosted the confidence.
    Summing up, confidence will come through experience.
    To gain new experiences you have to put yourselves in positions out of your comfort zone. Uncomfortable at first, but once you get over the initial period, you get another step up.
    There's a lot of good stuff on YouTube which you can view, then practice in real life, peoples behaviour is quite predictable and you can be in control once you have the experience and skills to do so.
    I believe friends and family don't have to be related to personal success, unless that if one of the things you desire.
     
  19. Gockie

    Gockie Life is good ☺️ Premium Member

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  20. Jacque

    Jacque Jacque Parker Premium Member

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    Oh dear so very wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin..... have you not heard of the term "conflict of interest"?! :eek::eek:
     

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