Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community

How to find R60 land?

Discussion in 'Development' started by ottg, 29th Nov, 2015.

  1. ottg

    ottg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    60
    Location:
    Perth
    I'm struggling to see/find a R60 blocks (size 300m2) in the Northern Perth area:
    What search methods, tools and techniques to you use to find those elusive R60 blocks?
    How successful are your methods?
    What do you do if agent alerts don't mention zoning - or their websites do not offer keyword searches?
     
  2. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    354
    Location:
    Perth
    There really isn't a great deal of R60 land North of the river... and not lots that are already at 300m2. What's your budget?
    In regards to agent alerts that don't mention zoning, you just need to know your suburbs and look at every property, play with different councils intramaps and look at zoning sections to find the spots.

    Pick a council that you think will have cheap enough land to fit your criteria -> go onto intramaps and look at their zoning maps -> (the higher zoned land will always be close to public transport or shopping centres)

    also, why do you want R60? why not R80? or R50?
     
    Last edited: 29th Nov, 2015
    House, ottg and Perthguy like this.
  3. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,962
    Location:
    Perth
    Like @Jamie_ has mentioned. It's extremely hit and miss to find a small block that can be divided again. They are rare as hens teeth.

    For those ads where the zoning is not mentioned (and even then don't trust it) you need to get a feel for the areas and work out where the R60 zones are from council Intramaps. Many areas NOR have not been rezoned that high or they are much larger blocks than you want.

    There are some in new estates but they don't put the zoning in their ads. You need to find the DAP (Detailed Area Plan) for the estate or look on the council Intramaps to work out where they are. And then watch out that they don't have a single dwelling covenant on them.
     
    ottg likes this.
  4. Aaron Sice

    Aaron Sice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    900
    Location:
    Ocean Reef, WA
    Single dwelling covenants can be squashed because they don't comply with state regs.
     
    ottg likes this.
  5. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    354
    Location:
    Perth
    What about covenants prohibiting single story on particular blocks in estates?
     
  6. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,962
    Location:
    Perth
    Cool, does it take much effort? @Aaron Sice
     
  7. ottg

    ottg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    60
    Location:
    Perth
    My budget for the block is $250k-275k max. With Perth contracting at the moment it may be possible.

    No specific reason but was as me and Westminister discussed originally - have included R50 & R80 in my searches.

    Will do - where will I see the covenant statement.
    Viewed one in Elsburg App, Catalina but is a corner block with the entrance cut-off. It will make car parking very difficult and cannot use the additional space for parking

    Thanks for all the replies, will look at the council intramaps & DAP
     
    sanj likes this.
  8. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,962
    Location:
    Perth
    @ottg if you are looking at Catalina again then there is an $8000 builder's rebate on some blocks being sold by Satterley that might help with your budget.
     
  9. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    354
    Location:
    Perth
    The block he's talking about is a re-sale so it wouldn't have that rebate would it?
     
    ottg likes this.
  10. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,962
    Location:
    Perth
    Correct if it's the one that I'm thinking of. If it is one that Satterly is reselling on behalf of a client it gets no rebates at all - no landscaping, no fencing, no solar PV etc

    Only some of the normal lots have the $8000 rebate - generally the older ones that are hanging around.
     
    ottg likes this.
  11. Aaron Sice

    Aaron Sice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    900
    Location:
    Ocean Reef, WA
    no - very straight forward process.
     
  12. ottg

    ottg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    60
    Location:
    Perth
    What will you do if you have 2 blocks to select from and the intent to construct two: 2x1 or two: 2x2 and keep both as rentals: Catalina (~$260k) & Butler (~$210k)
    a. The demographics checklist
    b. The feasibility checklist
    c. As Aaron mentioned: As long as there is a rental demand for it

    I borrowed ideas from many forums and chats to check the demographics:
    - get good simple design ideas that will be inexpensive
    - Always be looking for an edge
    - Assess if you would want to live there.
    - Where is nearest doctor, hospital, schools, local shopping and major shopping, bus, train, airport and major roads, distance to travel for work opportunities, new infrastructure planned
    - Get a feeling for the place; walk the area, have a coffee, buy a paper.
    - Impression of road frontage – a 10 feet tall boulder wall create a feeling of solidity and prestige
    - Check for quality and style on a great entrance as you leave the approach road
    - Use all senses (based on emotion) feel, small, hear
    - The width and length of special road finish
    - Identify the theme (key) and see how it carries through to other road surfaces, color scheme, uniform paving and uniting whole landscape.
    - Theme, color and surface of traffic island
    - Theme, color and surface of walking pavements
    - Take measurements of road and pavements width and impressions it make (it can reduce the quality feel of entire development)
    - Slope of the land - topography
    - Natural standing water for water landscaping or natural depression for such water feature
    - Demographics: supply of family residential land, population, population growth, population by age, household growth, household income, # of households, retail sales by store group, total & median effective buying income by percentage of households, and buying power index.

    Conclusion: both fail just on 60% fit for demographics but will speak with property managers today (but they may be biased).

    The other point, once done my checks the opportunity may be gone how do you do that? Alternatively skip all the demographics and check is their is a rental demand - but the property needs to be attractive as well.

    Your ideas please!!

     
    Perthguy likes this.
  13. Westminster

    Westminster Tigress at Tiger Developments Business Member

    Joined:
    13th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,962
    Location:
    Perth
    @ottg you really need to consider more scenarios to work out the most viable solutions for the block. I understand that it will cost more to build something larger but often it's not a lot more and the return may be significantly higher. You can also provide your own diversity and do one which is 2 x 2 and one which is 3 x 2.

    I've not seen those items above listed as demographics before. I use the last point in your list of human statistics for demographics: population, culture, %renters, ages etc

    The items you list above I'd consider more aesthetics
     
    Perthguy likes this.
  14. Aaron Sice

    Aaron Sice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    900
    Location:
    Ocean Reef, WA
    i agree with Myf - like i said @ottg - if you're building a 2x2 why not a 3x2 and then you're already going up so push for a 4x2 on the provision you have enough yard to do so.

    both those areas are screaming out for 4x2s and no one is providing them - and when they do - no yard.
     
    Perthguy likes this.
  15. LifesGood

    LifesGood Home Building & Development Consultant Business Member

    Joined:
    26th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    646
    Location:
    Perth WA
    Butler rental market is absolutely ****house at the moment. Dismal.
     
  16. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    354
    Location:
    Perth
    Agreed with these areas needing some 4x2's but assuming these blocks, you need to go two storey, would it be worth going 4x2 as opposed to a 3x2 with an extra living area? being such small footprint imo that 2nd living area is a must.
     
  17. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    354
    Location:
    Perth
    Wouldn't imagine Clarkson is any better to be honest. Plenty of supply around.
     
  18. Aaron Sice

    Aaron Sice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    900
    Location:
    Ocean Reef, WA
    3x2 needs a second floor. Once you're up...
     
  19. property world

    property world Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    2nd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    89
    Location:
    WA
    Surely you can just email the estate developers about a specific lot or block?

    Or yeh intramaps but i would double check the accuracy with council ect

    Good thread
     
  20. ottg

    ottg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    60
    Location:
    Perth
    Visited the suburb (in Perth area, WA) Planning Council and their Local Housing Strategy which has a proposed infill strategy to increase density (documented in 2014) and therefor proposed a number of additional allotments per year with their new zone maps.
    a. What is the formal process for approval of a typical proposal? It it similar for all suburb areas?
    b. How long does it take before an official rezone approval gets announced? Where and when does this get published?
    c. Who will be in the know that this rezoning is about to happen? Where can you see the status of the approval process? Will estate agents know this?
    d. Saw large blocks ( 1 acre) divided into lots of 520m2 for sale as residential R25 but falls within the planned R60 zone mapping area? Why is this happening and the strategy behind this early sales?
    e. How can you construct two villas on R25 which requires minimum site area of 350m2
    • If it was R60 approved you can fit three villas on? How can you achieve this?
    • What risks are involved to construct on proposed higher density land but not officially approved yet?