How much would it cost to make this large caravan shed compliant? It's a weird one (photos)

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Peterrr, 30th Jul, 2021.

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  1. Peterrr

    Peterrr Member

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    So I have my eyes on a property built around 15 years ago. Since then, it has changed hands three times.

    The previous owner of the property built a fully fenced caravan parking area inside the property boundaries. It appears that they had first erected some sort of a dividing fence, and I can't fathom the reason behind their decision, maybe aesthetic reasons? They then put up a gate too. (see below photos)

    I just checked the council records, the shed doesn't seem to have been registered with them. What is a ballpark figure to knock down and remove the shed in case the council rejects my retrospective planning/building application?


    Some photos:

    property when it was brand new:
    4

    When the dividing (aesthetic?) fence was erected around 2013:
    3

    Property as it is now:
    2

    Inside the gated caravan area!
    1

    Property boundaries:
    borders


    Your inputs are appreciated, thank you.
     
  2. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Probably best to add the photos into your post, not as links.

    Does the shed actually need a permit?
     
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  3. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    It's not really a shed, more likely a carport, so may not need a permit. Why do you want to knock it down?
     
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  4. Peterrr

    Peterrr Member

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    I checked with the council, it definitely needs approval. Knocking it down would not be my first choice, but I just might be ordered to by the council. It is likely that the Council will reject my retrospective building application, because, whoever built this did not follow the side setback requirements...
     
  5. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    I'd speak with a private certifier. They may be able to help in this instance.
     
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  6. ParraEels

    ParraEels Well-Known Member

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    Why even lodge building application. Council will not come down heavy on you and issue demolition order. Building certification will not supported by council because of side setbacks and fire separation between two buildings are too close.

    Council will only act on complaints. Council could have received complaints in 15 years if neighbours are not happy.
     
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  7. Peterrr

    Peterrr Member

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    Thanks for the input Parraels. One of my concerns is that in case of a fire or any other incidents related to the caravan shed, insurance company won't cover me because of the non-approved structure. That is why my second option was to knock it down and wanted to know how much roughly would it cost to demolish and remove it... I don't have a caravan anyway and would have better uses for that piece of land on my property, it's around 100m2 dedicated to something I don't use.
     
  8. Peterrr

    Peterrr Member

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    I didn't know there was such an option, thanks! So I should approach the private certifier directly, without alerting the council, right?
     
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  9. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Don't involve Council.
     
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  10. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    I would advertise it on gumtree or Facebook for free - and get it taken away for free. It’s just a carport bolted together, with some screening screwed on.

    Even the upright posts are just bolted to the concrete. If it’s too close to the side setback it could be moved!

    If you want an idea of demo cost, best to talk to a handyperson or carpenter.

    Probably would be a days work (maybe less) plus skip cost if you don’t get rid of it on gumtree or Facebook.

    It doesn’t seem to have lights or power points. You could even do it yourself with a helper and a couple of ladders. But I’d go the gumtree option.
     
    Last edited: 31st Jul, 2021
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  11. ParraEels

    ParraEels Well-Known Member

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    Please go around your suburb for a walk and carefully look at the carport and sheds of other buildings. I can assure you that every building has non-compliant features.

    At any cost don't involve Council. Otherwise, Council will issue notice/order and you will have a timeframe to comply with.

    Please check Building Code Australia. I believe that carport (partially open 3 side) don't require 900mm side set back. Instead of demolition, you can replace the timber with non-combustible items to make it more compliant with fire risk.

    BCA 2019 Volume 2 Section 3.7.2.6 page 249 sets multiple criteria for a carport (class 10a) which is no less than 500mm from the boundary. if it meets those BCA criteria, it is likely that it meets health and safety criteria. NSW legislation allows certain carport as exempt development. There might be similar exempt provision in Queensland. From the given photos, it is likely that the height of the carport might not meet the exempt criteria. Therefore the developmnent approval might be needed for as built structure with neighbour notification. All these are only required if you want to make it insurance proof. Otherwise if there are no complaints about the carport structures, Council may not take any formal action.

    P.S BCA 2019 can be downloaded for free from www.abcb.gov.au
     
    Last edited: 31st Jul, 2021
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  12. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you just need a different insurance company.

    This is one of the things that a private certifier can advise of & get approval for.......if it actually does need approval.
     
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  13. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t it a thing with all insurance companies? No permit no payout?
     
  14. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    I've had the experience that you can get it done & claim, whereas other companies you have to wait for them to assess it, & then get their contractors to do the work, which can take a long time.
     
  15. Peterrr

    Peterrr Member

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    Please excuse my ignorance, but could you clarify what were you referring to by "get it done"?
    Thank you :)
     
  16. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Just that.....get your repairs done, and the PM will submit to insurance for you and give you a payout.
     
  17. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    I thought it would work like this for a carport without a permit, too close to the fence:

    E.g next door house has a fire that travels to the carport via the fence. The carport catches alight and it spreads to the caravan and the house, destroying 1 room, the caravan, and leaving significant smoke damage.

    OP reports the fire to the insurance company. The insurance company checks the permits. Carport too close to the fence and no permit! Insurance company refuses or significantly reduces payout because the carport is too close to the fence with no permit.

    If OP gets the house repaired without contacting the insurance company then gets the PM to claim for the fire damage, won’t the insurance company still want to investigate?
     
  18. skater

    skater Well-Known Member

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    Ah, sorry, my mistake. Got threads mixed up. I was talking about getting small jobs done, like in LL insurance. Tenant punched a few holes in the wall, get it fixed as quickly as possible & re-let to minimize losses.
     
  19. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Insurers dont apply that view. You are overthinking it. They wont replace a defective / unapproved item and wont rebuilt it against code. They insure loss...Read your policy. It doest have T &C about spread of fire etc. If its destroyed or damaged......thats the test. .. They may give you $$$ for the carport and allow you to chase compliance etc. They wont pay for the slab relocation either.
     
  20. Paul@PAS

    Paul@PAS Tax, Accounting + SMSF + All things Property Tax Business Plus Member

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    Insurers dont care about approvals either...They wont pay to remedy non compliance or fix it...they may give you cash to address the damage or loss which may be a limited sum if it has no replacement value. Councils have no time limit on ordering demo,. All it takes in one annoyed neighbour. We had one down the road. They built what looked like a huge open sided covered outdoor rumpus room with unprotected TV, audio, lights etc no plumbing etc and a very flat roof so it wasnt at all to code (and had a lot of timber) and looked like a source of a neighbour dispute in the making . One day after approx a year it was all stripped back. Months later it was all demolished. I spoke to the guy sometime later and council required demo before they would even consider approval of a replacement and refused to consider changes as it was unapproved. Demo .....then they will consider approval. (Hills Shire Council) . It was too big, too high, had (illegal) power running from house and occupied a large % of the yard, no setbacks, no stormwater etc........ He didnt even both to replace it. They also required the slab removed which was the hardest bit to remove. He ended up moving. Another neighbour put in a picket fence...Went to a lot of cost and trouble....And it was illegal. No front fences allowed !

    This is why cops spend so much time taking crap cars off the road. People think they can do any mods when they own it and think obody notices. They do.
     

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