How I increased my income

Discussion in 'Investment Strategy' started by MTR, 14th Dec, 2017.

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  1. mues

    mues Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on your definition of control. If you buy that fund, you ask choosing to invest in 500 stocks proportionate to their size in the market. It will never change. So you get 100% what you pay for. To me that means i have 100% control over that purchase.
     
  2. mues

    mues Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering, is there any time in that last 17 years you have got it wrong? Do you own any property in perth? Do you currently own in Sydney? What about melbourne?

    Do you attempt to time the way up or also time your exit? (I am genuinely interested, not attempting to trap you)
     
    Last edited: 2nd Jan, 2018
  3. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Yes of course I am not perfect but I reckon I got it right 95.5% of the time.....I sm just very lucky:p

    Look at my media, I develop.....in on a rise out be4 peak;)
     
  4. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Control.... you don't make decisions on investment
     
  5. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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  6. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    What is it they say.......I'm a gonna........
     
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  7. mues

    mues Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, are you saying someone else makes decisions on an index fund investment?
     
  8. mues

    mues Well-Known Member

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    Actually scratch answering that. Thanks for taking the time to talk through your strategy. It’s always good to look at something different.
     
  9. Handyandy

    Handyandy Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mues

    It's because you quotes the perfect timing in your Vangurd example that I reacted. I then went looking to see what your background is and I found your post which is based on the same thing I reacted to.

    "You can't cherry pick times and a boom you see in hindsight to make a point."

    Could you please post a link to the performance of the fund you are quoting. If it is an Aust fund it should have a PDS available that gives all the relevant historic info.

    There is no control. You are investing in a fund that follows 500 shares. If the market crashes you have very little ability to exit except at a new lower price that the market has determined.

    Have a look at the fund you mention and see what it did between 2007 - 2011 I would predict that it went backwards substantially and took some time to recover.

    I agree with your point about the difficulty of timing a (any) market up or down.

    I base my RE buying based on returns only and when it makes sense to buy. I have bought 2 negatively geared properties in my whole investing career spanning 1985 - today. We hold a substantial RE portfolio in Sydney and some tell me Atlanta.;) We have only ever purchased and have only sold 2 properties at substantial profits due to extenuating circumstances.

    We did try shares and still have a substantial share portfolio but that is only a side show and I just can't get the timing right. We also lost substantial sums through a share investment fund and this really opened my eyes to a complete lack of control when things go bad.

    Anyway this thread isn't about shares but about very positive cash flow properties and income from the same. There are other threads which discuss funds and fund ''ínvesting''.

    Cheers
     
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  10. mues

    mues Well-Known Member

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    All the information you asked for is in this thread already. Performance in 07/08 using an actual investor (that guy was USA based and I used him because it closer match to transferring from AU to USA like you do to buy houses). If you can’t be bothered looking through he backlog - it took a year or so to recover. The pds for the AU version of the fund is already in the thread. I chose the AU originally because it’s easier to access and that one has the currency play mtr referred to. I used the timing put forward by mtr’s investment- not my cherry picked timing. If I had cherry picked I would have chosen end of 08 start. Everything I stated I did the best I could to evaluate this strategy against an alternative one which could be used if you have the money (as opposed to taking on debt which I believe is no longer comparative)

    I don’t agree with you on lack of control. Any asset that depreciates you have to pick between holding or selling at a lower price. Shares or houses. Shares are just more volatile so rise and fall faster. You can also sell them faster. I do agree you lose money in shares if you try and time the market. Which is why my fundamental belief is that people are not near as good at timing the market as they think - so I have built my current strategies on ensuring that timing is irrelevant.

    Finally - if you read my last post I said scratch answering and thanked mtr for her responses - because I knew I had gotten too far from the original topic. So we can probably wrap up my points here and you can go back to atl cash flow properties.

    Take care dudes. I honestly did enjoy the discussion and learnt some interesting things.
     
  11. Excalibur1

    Excalibur1 Well-Known Member

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    @mues @Karina @MTR @sash

    This is amazing thread and amazing discussion! Thanks for your contributions.

    I agree with all 4 of you. You should do what you are familiar with. As long as you are making return that YOU are happy with, there is nothing to worry about.

    @mues You are correct that investing in Vanguard the returns would have been spectacular, without much further input or time from you. On average since inception 16% pa.

    @Karina and @MTR Atlanta kicks ass as per your numbers. You are doing what you are familiar with and being awesome. However the biggest advantage that property has over shares is Leverage.

    As per example from @mues 500k would have returned 2.05m from 2011. Same amount invested in property would have returned slightly less. However if leverage is applied then it is clear who the winner in this is.

    I know that @MTR does all cash purchases. @Karina how do you finance your deals? Have either of you looked at getting USA bank loans? And how is it possible to do that at reasonable rate. I have been quoted from 9% -16% interest rate (including all costs). Which would eat up all cash-flow.

    Would ether of you (if you don't already own) buy multi family (10+ doors)?

    I said previously that shares and property are partners and should work together. Property can create capital which can be refinanced and invested in other property or even better, shares if you dont want the hassle...
     
  12. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    I have my own personal ventures in US but also a partner in another business where we have purchased 18 properties in 12 months, multi units, commercial properties Boston and Atlanta and also doing flips, buy and holds. We also leverage. We are also looking at diversifying in other markets.... currently researching feasibility of this.

    Am considering leverage in USA as market steams ahead, we will see.

    As I have said many times, success is all about timing the markets regardless of asset class.

    MTR:)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 4th Jan, 2018
  13. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Geraldton regional centres have been hammered
     
  14. Karina

    Karina Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: 4th Jan, 2018
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  15. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    I think it was something like 12 company headquarters moved to Atlanta last 12 months, fortune 500 companies
     
  16. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    An update, my first purchase/post 1
    I have 3 rental applications on this for $1100 per month
    Applicants pay $50 non refundable... ouch... This is US folks

    Have offers on another 3 town homes... lets see what happens.

    Just closed/settled on this property, currently tenanted $1100 per month

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 11th Jan, 2018
  17. Excalibur1

    Excalibur1 Well-Known Member

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    Congrats!! What is the suburb where you buy these? I know you said you use cash to buy these properties, do you draw down on your loans here and is interest on that included in the net yield??

    Some really nice numbers :)
     
  18. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    Reinvested profits from my developments in Melb, Perth and sale of Syd property, also from income generated from USA property/business, so its a mix of US dollars and AUD.

    Could access equity loan from US properties, no financials required, however interest rate will be 8% and set up fee 10% of the total loan... ouch...

    In hindsight I should have taken out loan in US in 2011 when property was dirt dirt cheap.

    Where am I buying.... South Atlanta, bread and butter suburbs.

    Also buying in the Beltline, down town Atlanta in the heart of the city, different product, small homes but need renovating, more time intensive but returns are very good, if you buy in at the right price. These are much more difficult to source and not for the faint hearted.
     
  19. Handyandy

    Handyandy Well-Known Member

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    You would have been whistling dixie to score any loans back in 2011. It was more like 2013 before there was any whispers about loans available and then the establishment costs were horrendous.
     
  20. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

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    There were those clayton loans, that the spruikers were promoting, in effect they were just tacking the loans onto the value of the property.. ouch.