How has the the government handled the economic fallout of COVID-19

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Antoni0, 1st Apr, 2020.

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  1. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    {Note from mods - this thread split from here: Government says tenants don't have to pay rent if under hardship}




    This Govt is running out of money real fast and turned to the next best thing to save face in a hurry. It feels like an attack of hard workers and good savers, I'm now being penalised for doing those two things that others didn't.

    They don't seem to care where the money comes from as long as they get votes from the majority. If they decide to finally burn off all the housing investors, where are they going to go next ? Banks have been run into the ground, businesses have been ruined, manufacturing has been pushed off-shore, the mining boom ended long ago. They want to have a good hard think about the consequences if investors start to pull out of properties real fast, a lot of services and business will go down with it.
     
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  2. Patrico1966

    Patrico1966 Well-Known Member

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    Correct Ant, a real worry the way that Morrison and his crew have gone about this. They just keep tacking things on ad-hoc. Leadership is poor. The rorting of this system will be massive especially in the business bailout. The extra money given to the "jobseekers" is the worst waste of money I have ever seen from a govt. Investors will get burnt- no 2 ways about it. What happens to those who have saved hard, done the right thing and get nothing out of this, not even a pat on the back? They are the ones who will be hit with the pay back levies. Just sit back and watch them dishing out money left right and centre. Morrison and that politician from NSW go to water when someone asks a hard question at journo frenzy time.
     
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  3. Tony3008

    Tony3008 Well-Known Member

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    But to be brutal (and I have 5 IPs) if I decide to throw the towel in, those properties don't disappear. They continue as IPs or PPORs under new owners.

    If I've got (say) a cafe employing five people and generating various taxes (GST, PAYG, payroll) and decide to give up, that's a major loss to the public purse and wider economy. A new owner might restart, in the current environment probably not. Thus the massive amounts being poured into job retention. We are not going to get much, if anything, in the way of government largesse.
     
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  4. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    I would rather be in Oz under ScoMo than in the USA under the Donald, in the UK under the Boris, ...
    Obviously you were around/have forgotten what happened with good, old Kevin during the GFC.
     
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  5. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    Money could have been far better off spent on education and a health system to cope with the virus and many more people would have been able to continue working.
    We'll have to wait and see what they (Govt) finally dish out to us.
     
  6. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    Even better if Border Security had done their damm job and not let all those travelling back from rhe U.S.A walk straight through without even a very basic temperature check .
    The big fella himself even brought back the virus to infect unsuspecting Australians.
     
  7. Ben Chifley

    Ben Chifley Well-Known Member

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    My concern in that the tens of billions being poured into the 'job-saver' scheme will be a complete waste - reason being if the economy is still rubbish after the subsidy ends then people lose their jobs anyway and the money thrown at the scheme is a total bust.

    Also the Commonwealth is accumulating debt at a record pace, faster than WWII. We were at $560 billion government liabilities before all this started and in the last six weeks they've added at least $250 billion. It's easy to imagine total Commonwealth liabilities will be at over a trillion dollars before the end of this year.

    This is REAL MONEY - it will have to be paid back with interest at some point and the only real options they have are to either sell bonds at increasingly high levels of interest (because there are so many of them) OR to print money. Either process is very inflationary.

    Whatever happens its a new paradigm now, we'll probably be looking back on the last 20-30 years as being incredibly stable and prosperous - because the future is looking pretty tough.
     
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  8. Omnidragon

    Omnidragon Well-Known Member

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    Universal income to all taxpayers sounds like we all sit at home, do nothing and get pieces of paper called Australian dollars.

    Not saying it’s a bad idea for a few weeks or even 1-2 months ... it seems probably not too different to Rudd’s handout in 2008. Except in the Krudd era at least someone was still working (aka producing stuff).
     
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  9. Omnidragon

    Omnidragon Well-Known Member

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    Yep real populist these days. Not just Aust. Most of the west is. In time you lose talent and capital, that’s all. And the leading economies of the world continue to reward hard working people - ie China and US.
     
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  10. Antoni0

    Antoni0 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, how many people would have self-isolated from overseas trips in the beginning ?

    In Singapore, they even separate suspected patients from others in medical waiting rooms and if you go positive for corona you don't even get to go home, they isolate you then and there.

    The last US rescue package went 2.2 trillion, image the pain they are going to feel. I hope we don't climb back into a war after this because countries will be fighting over money and cheap resources.
     
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  11. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    ... and the then 20 to 30 year olds will be telling the then 50 to 60 years how easy they had it.

    Isn’t it amazing how history continually repeats itself :D.
     
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  12. Patrico1966

    Patrico1966 Well-Known Member

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    Are you comparing the GFC with covid 19 are you? It also seems like you are also comparing the amount of Govt money used by Rudd then and the amount of Govt funds used by Scomo now as well. So who has really forgotten their history?
     
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  13. marmot

    marmot Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to wastefull spending for stimulus Scomo has just blown Rudd right out the ballpark with a home run.
    Billions to pensioners that cant even get out the house to spend their money, billions to part time workers that worked one or two days a week and just saw their weekly income triple for doing nothing.
    Also a couple of interest rate drops with a tax break last year that completely failed to work as intended
     
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  14. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    That is like a farmer saying the crop has failed, just after they planted the seeds.
    I would suggest we wait for 12 months to 2 years to see what those seeds produce.
    Also, we can evaluate our “farmer” with other neighbouring farmers and truly rate their actual performance.
    Far better to rate outcomes produced by inputs than rate inputs on their own IMHO.
     
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  15. Trainee

    Trainee Well-Known Member

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    This is the sort of thinking that turned a crash and recession worse in the 30s.

    No interest in arguing the politics, so will let each side decide which side they think this refers to.
     
  16. Jezzah

    Jezzah Well-Known Member

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    Umm... "The Morrison government has pledged to spend four times what Labor spent in response to the global financial crisis. The $194 billion spending since the beginning of March is more then the entire annual defence, education and health budgets combined."

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...er-open-to-policy-change-20200401-p54g41.html

    Unless you are saying that ScoMo and Josh are also going to be bagged for the next decade?
     
  17. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Well-Known Member Business Member

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    I think the government has had the outlines of a plan from the beginning and have been working to adapt that plan as best they can as the situation evolves. History will likely show that they made some errors, but this has never really happened to a modern society, they playbook is fairly light on this topic.

    I think they're trying to manage three crisis:
    * Solving the health problem of the pandemic.
    * Getting help to people who need it.
    * Ensuring there is employment and an economy after the crisis has passed.

    May say the government should have shut down everything a fortnight ago, but we've seen plenty of evidence of people ignoring isloation orders. You can't move a society from 'everything is okay' to 'you're not leaving home for 6 months' at a whim, it does take steps to implement this.

    People are criticising that too much money is being thrown at businesses, but if businesses don't survive, those same people won't have jobs in the long term.

    Has the government thrown landlords under the bus? That's actually a state issue and a very complex one. At this point it was one simple statement from the PM and we've waited 4 days for the states to actually manage it. I suspect they're struggling to find a balance that works.

    We may look back and say that they could have done a much better job, but in the moment what would you have done and what would be the consequences of those decisions? Overall I think they've done quite well in an incredibly difficult situation.

    Edit: I'm very happy I'm not living in the USA right now. Someone's local approval ratings might be up, but I think history will judge him very, very badly.
     
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  18. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    One of the problems faced by Governments at Federal, State and local level. Yes, it'd probably be fine to allow people to stroll about, etc, etc IF they adhered by the requirement to keep a specified separation. But many don't. So in view of that it was probably reasoned We'll do it for you as you won't.
     
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  19. kierank

    kierank Well-Known Member

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    Umm... surely you aren’t comparing COVID-19 (a global pandemic, a global financial crisis and a global economic cliff) to the GFC (global financial crisis).
    The bagging started two months ago ...

    One only has to read a few threads on PC.

    Who knows how long it will go on for.
     
  20. SatayKing

    SatayKing Well-Known Member

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    By any chance are you referring to the "Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda" cohort who don't actually have to make the decisions and probably wear the odium?
     
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