Housing Crisis... your fault, old people

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by larrylarry, 2nd Nov, 2015.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. Travelbug

    Travelbug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    963
    Location:
    Gold Coast (from Sydney)
    That's true Sash. I didn't do the figures. I'm not planning on drooling at the mouth around 77-80 though (not sure about yourself). When I told my mum I was retiring she said "What are you going to do for 30 years?" haha. Nearly everyone on both sides of my family live into their late 80's-90's with good health.
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't think the baby bonus and first home owner grants should be paid in the first place. Middle class welfare should be reduced. I would consider it fair to include any personal/direct publically funded assistance required post high school (i.e. adulthood) to be taken out of an estate.
    & only going to become a larger strain on the working population as this ratio continues to fall...

    [​IMG]
    via http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/07/more-aged-pension-delusion/
     
  3. lightbulbmoment

    lightbulbmoment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    959
    Location:
    nsw
    Making dole people sign in every morning is a great idea.

    I have to sign into my job everyday and also get drug tested so it should be the same if not harder for them. I know people on the dole who all they do is surf everyday and sell weed and they have been doing it for years instead they should be mowing lawns or out volunteering.
     
    legallyblonde and wylie like this.
  4. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,094
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Cat food is much nicer, lower in salt and bland fillers.

    What's wrong with being asset rich (one's own home) & cash poor? When push comes to shove these people will go to nursing homes, sell up for their bonds etc.
     
  5. 2FAST4U

    2FAST4U Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    2,304
    Location:
    Democratic People's Republic of Australia
    Yep lets waste billions of dollars in administration costs for a pointless exercise that does absolutely nothing to enhance their prospects of securing a job...oh wait that already exists it's called JSAs.
     
  6. lightbulbmoment

    lightbulbmoment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    959
    Location:
    nsw
    Billions of dollars in admin cost??

    An electonic swipe card system could be used and the work they would be doing would be helping the local council or community.

    At least this would motivate able people to go out and get a real job.
     
  7. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    9,189
    Location:
    Adelaide and Gold Coast
    How would you prevent someone taking the whole family's cards to the office?
     
  8. sash

    sash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    15,605
    Location:
    Sydney
    Well in your case you are doing your bit for Australia by you being financially independent assuming your finds last......the real issue is that people are going to well into their 80s/90s in reasonable health....and your mom makes an excellent point. When the pension was thought of...people would only be on it for 5-10 years. Now you are looking at people being on it for 30-40 years.

    As per Bullion's chart above...by 2020 there will be less than 4 workers per retiree. The numbers in Germany and Japan are more dire...more like 2.5 workers...with that sort of numbers only 2 things can happen more taxes or reduced pensions.
     
    Francesco, RM1827 and Bran like this.
  9. lightbulbmoment

    lightbulbmoment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    959
    Location:
    nsw
     
  10. 2FAST4U

    2FAST4U Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    2,304
    Location:
    Democratic People's Republic of Australia
    You would've thought that living off $260 a week, going into Centrelink each fortnight, and attending a weekly appointment with a job agency would be enough motivation to get a 'real job'...plus it's now mandatory for people to do work for the dole and spend x amount of hours a week volunteering.

    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=22711
     
    Last edited: 3rd Nov, 2015
  11. D.T.

    D.T. Specialist Property Manager Business Member

    Joined:
    3rd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    9,189
    Location:
    Adelaide and Gold Coast
    I'm not disagreeing mate, just making sure there's no holes in it. If it were up to me, Centrelink wouldn't even exist so I'm definitely happy to consider check in options
     
  12. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,094
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    From Noel Whittaker's articleon gst & tax reform:

    "Our fastest growing group is the 65s and over, and 87% of them pays no income tax whatsoever. There are only 1.5% of adults in the highest tax bracket, and they pay 26% of all income tax between them; and there are 9.5% of taxpayers in the $80,000 to $180,000 bracket - they account for 35% of the income tax. In other words, 10.9% of adults pay 61% of the income tax".

    Interesting to see where the burden of tax lies.

    Grannies are asset rich yet pay little/no tax. The redistribution of the gst is one way to recoup taxes from this group of non-taxpayers.
     
    Angel likes this.
  13. MTR

    MTR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,784
    Location:
    My World
    No one will ever agree on this because no system will ever be perfect and our views differ greatly, dependent on age, background etc

    As I mentioned its the Danish/German model that is the best in the world in terms of looking after the elderly, we are third on the list which makes me happy.

    On the other side of the coin, investors pay too much tax, stamp duty, CGT, GST which looks likely to increase to 15%. In USA and NZ and there is no stamp duty, no CGT in NZ and no more than 15% in USA.

    Nothing is ever going to be perfect and nothing is ever going to be fair, but what is the point of targeting the elderly and their primary residence when we should be changing systems that enable people to receive handouts and who have never worked a day in their life. I think the old age pension should be way down the list, there are bigger fishes to fry

    MTR:)
     
  14. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    27,094
    Location:
    Sydney or NSW or Australia
    Because these people are the 'neediest' in our communities ie they 'need' everything but are the first to complain if they have to pay for it.
     
    MTR likes this.
  15. lightbulbmoment

    lightbulbmoment Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    959
    Location:
    nsw
    Believe it or not no its not otherwise people wouldnt still be on or my mates I know wouldnt be hanging at the beach all day. There just surviving and happy that way
     
  16. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    864
    Location:
    Benalla
    Denmark might have an admirable social security net, but I doubt that a lot of voters in Australia would be willing to pay the significantly higher rates of income tax and VAT (GST) that it would be required to fund it.

    Lone retirees hanging onto large houses is considered to be a problem everywhere. The trouble is that property is a finite resource, and the transaction costs make it expensive to relocate.

    Replacing stamp duty with a land tax might help, but then you could end up in a situation where a ruling such as California's Proposition 13 benefits long term owners by reducing the rate at which payments rise to 2%.

    Some of the criticism of the proposed Mansion Tax in the UK would sound familiar: What happens to an old lady who's lived in her Chelsea house all her life, and now gets slugged with a huge annual charge for staying there?

    But it's a difficult topic, with a lot of those tough decisions that politicians shy away from making.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Sums up my view:

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/11/old-farts-outraged-at-sharing-housing-stock/

    & this would be a reasonable solution, reverse mortgage on the home:
     
  18. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26th Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    864
    Location:
    Benalla
  19. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    405
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I cant believe only 9.5% of tax payers earn 80-180k. Isnt 80k only a bit above average (or is it median?) earnings?
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

Build Passive Income WITHOUT Dropping $15K On Buyers Agents Each Time! Helping People Achieve PASSIVE INCOME Using Our Unique Data-Driven System, So You Can Confidently Buy Top 5% Growth & Cashflow Property, Anywhere In Australia