Hornsby Shire Council Subdivision

Hi

I'm doing some research into doing a subdivision on a property in the Hornsby Shire Council. Does anyone know a good town planner that specialises in this area?

One a side note, with all the council amalgamations, are planning laws likely to change?

Thanks!

 

Hello
The controls remain the same inspite of amalgamation.
Subdivision in Hornsby has been straight forward for few of our projects. You can talk to 'Tas' on 9879 0020 for town planning related matters. Hope all goes well for you.

 

Are minimum lot sizes set in stone, or can they be open to negotiation? I've seen some properties our our suburb which are a lot smaller than the minimum lot size?

Minimum lot size is 500m2, combined block is 1480, would they allow 3 rather than 2?

 

Clause 4.6 of the LEP is the usual way

 

Good luck with that in Hornsby Shire, my answer would be no. They are tough. My neighbour recently got subdivision approval for his 1800sqm block into 3 and by the time you include the common area (drive etc) there wasn't much more than 500sqm in each block.
With 1480sqm and common areas to consider I assume it won't be possible anyway.

 

Did your neighbour use a town planner or do it themselves?

Luckily it's on a corner block so won't have any common areas otherwise I guess it would be a definite no.

 

Matthew is right about Hornsby Council, I am a town planner and I live in Hornsby

The Clause 4.6 does allow for variations to standards and traditionally the rule of thumb was 10%. Recently councils have been taking a tougher stance on this and Hornsby is one of the worst.

Councils in general can be very picky on technicalities when submitting DAs. One council recently refused a DA because the documents were submitted on a DVD disc instead of the USB they asked for (other councils ask for a DVD Disc).

The wording of the Clause 4.6 request for a variation also has to be constructed in a certain way (saw a rejection from Sydney Council last week due to this error).

If it was my land I would at least give it a go (at least to the feasibility stage and maybe a pre-lodgement meeting with council) since if it got through the financial gain would be significant although if it was unsuccessful you would have lost a little more expenses upfront.

 

A town planner was used.
No harm in you trying, they can only say no I guess and as Anthony said the potential upside could be significant.

The other thing to consider is even if you get approval for 3 blocks, will you be able to attract buyers to such small land given the appetite for bigger blocks and reasonable sized houses in this area.
Hornsby Council rules are 40% building site for single storey or 50% for 2 storey, getting approval on a 2 storey on such small land is another story altogether.

Bigger lots sell very quickly in this area and for a lot of money. I saw tonight in a real estate agency window a block of 750sqm for sale in an average Pennant Hills street at $1.2m

 

Thanks for the details Anthony, appreciate it. Have you successfully dealt with Hornsby Council in getting a variation through? I've heard that they're hard to deal with, but then there was a house that broke the height restriction and had multiple objection that was just pushed through. They height restriction was broken to save costs of not having to level the block...

 

Important to think of end buyers. I think there is a premium for larger blocks, but saw these two recent sales:

510m2: $1.8m
219 Malton Road, North Epping, NSW 2121 - Property Details

800m2: $2.1m 41 Devon Street, North Epping, NSW 2121 - Property Details

 

Geez. 41 Devon is a battle axe property as well so the actual usable land appears to be much less than 800sqm.

 

I have had success with Clause 4.6 variations for several councils but not only does it tend to differ between councils but also to some degree depends on the planner assessing your DA. The NSW government is trying to get consistency in the system but in my opinion it is far from it yet.

Going to the example above, sometimes a height variation is preferable to large excavation so council may favour the variation. Also the height is measured from natural ground level so sometimes the height breach is not as much as it would first appear (since the height limit is not a straight line over the top of a structure but a wavy line in some cases).

About 1 year ago in discussions with Hornsby Council they were justifying their stricter stance on clause 4.6 variation requests by citing the L&EC case of Four2Five Pty Ltd v Ashfield Council [2015]

Generally things are tougher at the moment although the government is pressuring council to get more approvals through the system.

One project I am doing now involves a FSR variation where council, in informal discussions, says they will accept the equivalent of an additional 3 sqm but not 7sqm.

Finally, like others have mentioned, it is needed to be considered that the design of any proposed dwellings will be able to meet the controls for (depending on zone and council) parking, private open space, landscape area, lot coverage, FSR, height, setbacks, solar access, etc etc.

I assume you are asking about R2 zone in Hornsby?

 

A good local TP and PCer is Andrew Neil 02 43248554 (Gosford)

 

Yes, R2 zone in North Epping which unfortunately wasn't moved to Paramatta.

Would you need building plans when apply for the subdivision or is it enough to just show where the building would go? Assuming that you'd then do a separate DA for building the house?

 

Thanks Paul, will also need tax advice to calculate if it's worth going ahead. Good thing I have a good accountant

 

Prices seem so high in this suburb, families move in and never move out so there isn't much stock I guess

 

Great school zone.. they move in for the schools.... very friendly neighbourhood, it's a true community.

 

You are correct in that you could show a building footprint for the sub-division and then do the DA for the building itself. My thoughts were more of a design concept plan, maybe by a draftsman.
This would give you a better idea of what the end result may be but could be an unnecessary step.

 

Malton Road in Beecroft is considered the 2nd best street in the suburb so you need to consider that in this comparison whereas Devon Street in Epping is just a 'normal' street in the suburb.

 

Pretty much all North Epping streets are about the same in desirability, the variables mostly being some streets are flatter, some more steep, some closer to the station, some with more trees, some with less trees and many backing onto the national park. Good variety for anybody loving nature and peace and good schools. Most blocks are 700sqm plus. It's a dead end suburb so there's not a huge amount of traffic anywhere. I just wanted to say there is a Malton Rd in North Epping!
Norfolk Rd has the prettiest (most historic) houses but is also the busiest throughfare.