Here we go again...

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by MyPropertyPro, 8th Mar, 2017.

Join Australia's most dynamic and respected property investment community
  1. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
  2. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Aug, 2016
    Posts:
    162
    Location:
    Sydney
    This May budget however I don't think it will just be talk. This budget I think they will start making some property market changes.
    A change like this will be seeing and doing something (makes the government look good), but not doing much at all. More token gestures to keep the clueless public happy.
    More heavy negative gearers would have maybe 2-3 properties max. Income would not be enough to have more negative geared.
    Few would hold 6 negative geared. May stop people with 6+ from getting the next properties 7/8 negative geared. Small impact really (6+ properties makes up maybe 1-2% of investors). The other 98% unaffected.
     
    Gino D likes this.
  3. KayTea

    KayTea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    10th Aug, 2015
    Posts:
    1,204
    Location:
    Inside my head
    Well, at least that's one thing I don't have to worry about at the moment :confused:
     
    aussieB and JacM like this.
  4. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Inciteful (sic) Staff Member Business Plus Member

    Joined:
    14th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    10,599
    Location:
    Gold Coast (Australia Wide)
    moving forward apra and Asic have done a good job of removing that systemic risk anyway

    Ta

    Rolf
     
    Terry_w, House and willair like this.
  5. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
    I will never agree with the concept that if you work and study hard I.e. Educate yourself in property investing and follow a strategy to get ahead, you are penalised for it at a certain point. It's an overriding philosophy in all of these sorts of debates and is complete socialism.
     
    Gypsyblood, Hanison, Adele and 6 others like this.
  6. jins13

    jins13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,357
    Location:
    Sydney
    I agree with this and sick and tired of the whiners. When people were playing around, sleeping, spending the weekends to recharge, wasting money on useless things and etc, I was studying, working and saving. Why should I be penalised for working hard to help the freeloaders who did nothing to help themselves and all they do is whine and cry about things? I do sound extreme but having most likely shortened my life expectancy dramatically, I think this is a poor show.
     
  7. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Aug, 2016
    Posts:
    162
    Location:
    Sydney
    Sorry, disagree with you. Working hard is ine thing. Generous conditons for property investing is another. The 50% CGT discount was put in place to simplify and replace the CPI calculated method. But it now means someone can hold property for 12mths and get 50% discount. Under the CPI method (assuming 3% CPI) , you would get to 50% discount after maybe 14-15yrs.
    It increases speculative investing, investor activity, and heats up the market.

    I have no doubt the CGT will be the first thing to change in the May 2017 budget. I recon maybe a scale approach. 25% discount yr 1-5, then 50% year 6 onward.

    Why don't you consider the generous tax benefits of property investing " socialism" likewise. Oh sorry, that because of bias and you work in the industry.

    As an property investor, I would love to see changes. Markets such as Sydneu and Melbourne are running stupidly hot, and risk the economy as a whole.
     
  8. Kassy

    Kassy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    550
    Location:
    Canberra
    You have to be a subscriber to read the article btw so can't see the details...
     
  9. willair

    willair Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    19th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    6,776
    Location:
    ....UKI nth nsw ....
    Just have to ask what does "complete socialism" mean..
     
    MyPropertyPro likes this.
  10. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    search negative gearing review targets property moguls
     
    CSDS likes this.
  11. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    8,572
    Location:
    Sid en e - olympic city
    Typical govt, reactionary, blame shifting.

    If they had of had APRA lending changes in place before doing all the rate cuts, that would have prevented all this as would not have been as strong in Syd and Mel I would guess.
     
  12. See Change

    See Change Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    5,111
    Location:
    Sydney
    Could lead to interesting debates about how this is determined . Number of properties or value .

    So someone with five waterfront ip's in Sydney , no change , but if you had seven logan houses , no refund ...

    Personally , I think it there should be a few calculations .
    1. Maximal amount that anyone can claim ? 20-30 k , ? 50 -100 k
    2. Maximal amount a tax payer can claim as a % of their tax .
    Personally I think it's silly that someone could claim all their tax back.
    I think it's silly that someone who has an income in the millions should be able to claim 100's of thousands .

    Other dilema's is do they grandfather existing property owners . If they don't , then that could cause a significant disruption to the market .

    If they don't grandfather it in, then they should have a slow phase in for existing property owners , as a sudden change would crash the market , and finally send us into a recession .

    Btw , won't affect us as I have minimal if any negative gearing .

    Cliff
     
    Terry_w likes this.
  13. Kassy

    Kassy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21st Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    550
    Location:
    Canberra
    Still pay wall blocked... I'll wait until someone else reports it.

    From what @See Change has said, it does sound very simplistic.
     
  14. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
    The reason I don't consider them socialism is because they're available to everyone and anyone. One segment of the population isn't singled out with access to those benefits, everyone has access to them. That's capitalism. By segmenting who those benefits are available to, that's socialism.

    I'm not referring to working hard in general, I'm referring to working hard to build a property portfolio that takes years of education and hard work specific to that task. If you haven't had to work hard to do it, then something is missing.

    For the record, I don't work in the industry and I'm not bias. I actually work in a completely different industry and own a business in the property industry that I started because I am passionate about property investment and getting it right. I was an investor for many years before I became involved in the property industry in an official capacity.

    I completely respect your right to disagree of course.
     
    chrissiu84 and jins13 like this.
  15. MyPropertyPro

    MyPropertyPro REBAA Buyer's Agents Sutherland Shire & Surrounds Business Member

    Joined:
    1st Jul, 2015
    Posts:
    1,874
    Location:
    Australia
    A frustrated description ;)
     
    chrissiu84 likes this.
  16. Perthguy

    Perthguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    22nd Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    11,767
    Location:
    Perth
    The same CGT 50% discount applies to shares. Yet I never see anyone claim the 50% CGT discount for shares increases speculative investing, investor activity, and heats up the market. In fact, it doesn't. The All ords is still 1,000 points down from the peak of 2007.

    Property and shares get the exact same generous tax concessions. Why do the property tax concessions cause a housing bubble but the shares tax concessions aren't enough to prevent a decade of lacklustre performance on the ASX?

    Personally, I don't think the 50% CGT discount is a causal factor here at all.
     
    MyPropertyPro likes this.
  17. Johnny Cashflow

    Johnny Cashflow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    29th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    919
    Location:
    SA
    Because it isn't fair!
     
  18. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    19th Aug, 2016
    Posts:
    162
    Location:
    Sydney
    So you don't believe in asset testing things then (because that would be socialism :p).

    Hard work in property, pull the other one:rolleyes:. Years of education and hard work :rolleyes:.
    No, I just built mine up as I started 9 years ago at the right time. When Sydney was growing, and now when SEQ is growing. Sometimes buying sight unseen in SEQ, and making nice yield and CG now. Property would have to be the area where you need the least education, and still do well. Sometimes too much education can be counter-productive (you miss opportunities in over analysing and analysis paralysis).
     
    Silverson likes this.
  19. HUGH72

    HUGH72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    18th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    3,022
    Location:
    QLD
    If you Google the article title you will find it.
     
  20. Blacky

    Blacky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25th Jun, 2015
    Posts:
    2,066
    Location:
    Bali
    I just think that Australias entire tax, welfare and social system needs an overhaul, however, we have a mob of politicians who are more concerned with staying popular than doing what needs to be done. So its endless tinkering with the system (generally making it more complicated, and more costly to administer) while generating no real benifit for anyone (except maybe the administrators). I think the term is 'jaw boning'.

    Any idea which starts out good gets discussed, disected and watered down to such a degree its becomes just a pointless change with additional paperwork.

    Blacky
     
    wobbycarly, Anthony Brew and Perthguy like this.