Help me Decide a dispute: smoke alarms

Discussion in 'Property Management' started by Truly Exotic, 5th Mar, 2016.

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  1. Ouga

    Ouga Well-Known Member

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    "Trying is the first step towards failure" Homer
    I think the energy and time spent on discussing this "issue" is not worth the annual $99 already.

    I am not sure what you are discussing this for though: if you don't like the agent doing this, them simply change management. Or just pay the $99 annual fee and focus on more important and productive things.
     
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  2. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    To me it reads that they wont be doing any checking themselves.
     
  3. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    Here's 60 cents, find a phone booth.....
     
  4. Truly Exotic

    Truly Exotic Well-Known Member

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    99 x6 isnt something to laugh at

    Also its about principal too.
    Whats stopping them for doing to other properties as well. Better to to sort it out now than later
     
  5. Truly Exotic

    Truly Exotic Well-Known Member

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    Well if they wont do any checking. Then they shouldnt be force signing others onto the program
    Its their choice to accept the property for management
     
  6. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    This has 2 purposes possibly.
    1. Kickbacks
    2. Covers them in case the landlords property burns down and the try to push part of the bae onto the agent.
     
  7. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    You still have let us know if your management agreement allows them to enter these contracts on your behalf.
     
  8. ZachAnsel

    ZachAnsel Well-Known Member

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    @Truly Exotic
    From the legal contract perspective, I dont think PM can sign the contract on behalf. Unless stated on the contract.

    I have no doubt you will get refund even you didn't provide evidence that the alarm was serviced, at the end they dont care if the property get burned. They have insurance to protect their business

    But on the other side of the fence, disputing this issue to your PM will have impact on performance their managing your property. Then if you decided to move, can you ensure you will get better PM?

    From the respond I can sense PM also have good reason recommending $99/year services. Its just the matter PM communicate back to you is the bottom line of the problem

    I guest what I want to say is at the end I prefer win win solution. Keep your PM happy, tenant happy, will turn the favour back to you in the long run
     
  9. Shazi

    Shazi Active Member

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    Sounds like a scam . One of my previous PM did this and I immediately ceased business with them . I take care of the smoke alarms yearly or when my present PM informs me of faults etc and email her with details of what i had done .Never had to supply compliance cert. This is all that is required . end of the day it is your prop and you are responsible for the safety of tenants.
     
  10. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates Well-Known Member

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    @Shazi - how much does it cost to call out your sparky to check the smokie?
     
  11. TMNT

    TMNT Well-Known Member

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    I pay my tradie 30 bucks per hour and for 60 to 80 bucks, he will go round to any property, and put new $8 ones in,

    stuff maintaing or call outs or servicing them,
    a simple replacement with a new battery one does the job
     
  12. wylie

    wylie Moderator Staff Member

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    We pay $70 per property and that covers as many visits as necessary over each year.
     
  13. Shazi

    Shazi Active Member

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    Why pay a sparky when you can do it yourself
     
  14. Terry_w

    Terry_w Lawyer, Tax Adviser and Mortgage broker in Sydney Business Member

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    One reason is to shift the blame if something goes wrong. You may have a hard time with evidence to prove you were not negligent if you did it yourself.
     
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  15. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    This is another thing that PMs read different.

    If it is existing, in NSW, I think nothing is required, if you get new blinds, it is.....something like that, half the annoyance is how each PM does what they think is important.
     
  16. Michael Thomas

    Michael Thomas Member

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    This is a very simple one.
    You are right, 100%.
    I am in the smoke alarm compliance industry and it is indeed a very important service.
    If however, a landlord wishes to meet their legal smoke alarm obligations by their own means, that is 100% legal.
    In fact the Queensland Fire and Emergency Services Act 1990 calls the property owner/landlord to action, not the real estate or a third party.
    Smoke alarm compliance services are an optional service for those landlords who a) may live overseas, interstate or not nearby their rental, and b) who wish to remove risk of litigation from themselves to a third party.
    Although this is certainly my recommendation and that of most real estate agencies, if a landlord decides to meet these obligations by their own means, that is 100% legal.
     
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  17. Chilliblue

    Chilliblue Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Michael Thomas what qualifications does your company have?
     
  18. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread and I'm also interested in @Chilliblue 's question about qualifications. I can understand that employing an independent company removes the risk from both the PM and LL.

    The question I have is that no legislation that I have read requires that ‘qualified’ independent personnel carry out these tests. From this, it appears that state authorities consider that as long as smoke alarms are functioning effectively, can operate effectively (free from obstructions, dirt etc) and have not reached their expiry date, that the legislation is met. I would have thought that if the legislation requires full smoke testing of the alarms, they would have said so.

    For the more risk adverse PMs, I’m somewhat surprised that their inspection reports don’t have a section about testing of the fire alarms, where they can tick a box stating that ‘to the best of my ability, I have tested the fire alarms at this premises and to my ability the fire alarms do / do not (choose option) work on the above inspection date’, and for the really risk adverse they could take a video showing them testing the alarm with a pole. Maybe including this statement could be seen to increase their liability if there was a fire?

    When one of my IPs had a dryer fire, the insurance company appeared satisfied with the firies report stating that the cause of the fire was lint buildup in the dryer and (albeit a slow process) my apartment had a refreshed interior (I don't think the BC insurance became involved).
     
  19. dabbler

    dabbler Well-Known Member

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    When you sleep your sense of smell does not function as it does when awake, smoke alarms are meant to alert you to a problem, not so you can prevent a large fire or damage to property or for insurance benefits, but to save your skin.
     
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  20. Chris Au

    Chris Au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I could understand about the sense of smell not being as acute when asleep. My comment wasn't meant to be flippant in any way, more covering off for PMs who are more risk adverse. I have recently asked all my PMs to change all existing smoke alarms to the 10 year photoelectric smoke alarms. I have taken their guidance about placement but from memory there is one at the entrance to the hallway to bedrooms.