Hebel VS Brick house?

Discussion in 'Development' started by DevKZ, 15th Sep, 2017.

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  1. DevKZ

    DevKZ Well-Known Member

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    Hi folks,

    I recently had a quote from a home building company. (Im in QLD/AUS)

    They are using Hebel for external walls (not all of them but most of them) - two story house.

    That material seems to be cutting lots of labour cost as its easy to construct.

    From the specification of the material issued from Hebel (company), it does actually have some good features.
    (Fire resistance, better insulation etc)

    But sure this material has got cons.. has anyone lived or built a house with Hebel and faced some issues?

    Is it really recommendable material for new housing?

    Thanks,
     
  2. hammer

    hammer Well-Known Member

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  3. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    I have looked into both Hebel and the Boral's firecheck gyprock in details. There is plenty of fancy features such as fire and sound rating but remember these will largely differ once built and installed.

    It boils down to a few points

    1) Comparing Brick to Hebel or Boral gyprock is like comparing Mercedes to Cherry. There is plenty of nice features in the latter but at the end of the day there is no replacement for quality.

    2) The builder ends up saving far more in material and labour cost and they will only pass some of those savings to you. Usually builders who have little to no relationship with good, large-team brick layers promote this because it favours them. But a good builder with good teams of brick layers should be able to build the same wall with maybe a week or two difference in delay.

    3) Today's buyers are mostly very well researched and if they find out you used a 10 to 20 mil sheet to build your house instead of brick it will hammer you in resell.

    I could go on about the fact that if you are building a two story you can only put so much weight on your wall etc but I leave it at that.
     
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  4. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    I lived in a 2 storey house built with Hebel for 19 years, sold it last year for top price. No problems during that time. :D
     
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  5. Bonz

    Bonz Well-Known Member

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    I believe the comparison runs like this. Brick equates to a 1956 Hillman, hebel equals a top of the range Mercedes and SIPs is the rolls Royce of construction. Spend some time doing the research, sips gives you the most energy efficient, quickest build time and most liable construction currently available in Australia.
     
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  6. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what motivation you may carry to think hebel is rolls ryoce but dont you think if that were true Austral would be out of business by now? According to you its faster, better and cheaper? :)


    Any way, in terms of research I have been to construction sites where they built the party wall or the entire external wall from Hebel, gyprock and other similar products. I was actually considering hebel for a recent build. Did you know in some circumstances they use the roof to hold the walls together as you need load bearing beams everywhere?

    I have also monitored the resell value and IF the buyer knows what they are doing brick will always get a far higher price.

    The only reason you would want to use hebel (other than the builder trying to pull the wool over your eye) is if you are building a granny flat and even then I would use cheaper material than hebel.
     
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  7. Hamish Blair

    Hamish Blair Well-Known Member

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    Carter Grange homes in Melbourne do high end builds and are exclusively Hebel.

    My builder used Hebel as fire rated wall between two adjoining town houses for fire rated party wall. Otherwise brick ground floor and lightweight rendered polystyrene for upper floor.
     
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  8. DevKZ

    DevKZ Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the valuable information, guys!
     
  9. Bonz

    Bonz Well-Known Member

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    I'll be clearer. Hebel is only a top end Mercedes. SIPs construction using German OSB and EPS "sandwhich" panels is the rolls Royce of the construction systems in Australia currently.

    Many of the brick manufacturers are not doing so well, and why would they? Brick homes are slower to build, more costly to run and will depreciate in value exponentially as utility costs increase.

    It's not hard to do the sums on the value for money proposition between brick and lightweight. The fact is many builders are to lazy to do the work needed to improve or adopt new construction methods, and many have a vested interest in continuing to churn out brick builds because they have an interest in the current supply chain. Using a better construction system has nothing to do with "pulling the wool over anyone's eyes" it's about caring for a client and wanting to deliver the best possible outcome for a client's investment.

    My only driver is to have the punters consider a better construction system before signing up to a brick build. What they do after that is their freedom of choice.

    Just as an aside, why wouldn't you use the roof to hold walls together? I believe roof and walls are pretty interdependent and rely on each other from structural integrity.
     
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  10. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Is fine - I used a combination of brick and hebel for Pt cook houses and it turned out OK with minimal issues. They also are easy to clean off and you don't have to paint it as it is rendered when it is put on. It cools down quicker duing warmer days. Only issue recalled when a big chip came off it cost a bit to repair which was at the tenant's cost. When the time came to sell - it made no difference to buyers.

    upload_2017-9-26_10-38-15.png
     
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  11. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a lot of personal opinions than factual information shared on here which to a degree makes it an unreliable source of information.

    Hebel or CSR Fyrecheck or similar products do not compare to brick.

    In terms of sound insulation nothing we have today will replace a virgin brick party wall with an airgap in between, same for thermal, fire rating etc.

    More importantly brick is "load bearing" whereas you have to turn every trick in the book to build a 2 story house using hebel and if it is not Dynabolted to the slab properly then it will be the story of 3 little pigs and the big bad wolf when the next storm comes along.

    In terms of build time, like for like, the difference is mere weeks. I have seen it first hand.

    In terms of cost, yes it will cost less to build with any kind of plasterboard but the builder will pocket most of the savings not you.
     
  12. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish :p
     
  13. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    Please enlighten us with your wisdom

    Hebel wall panels have only been in Australia for 20 years, assuming you even know what your house was made of, how on earth did you have it for 19 years and then sold it when it wasn't even introduced in the country?
     
    Last edited: 29th Sep, 2017
  14. Joynz

    Joynz Well-Known Member

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    Brick can be load bearing (common in WA) but in many states it is installed as brick veneer which is used as a cladding only - and the load is held by the internal frame.

    Hebel blocks are an alternative to double brick and apparently perform better thermally than double brick.
     
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  15. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    Brick is used as cladding?

    Load is always held by the frame thats why you have the frame. However the frame and your first floor often distribute part of their load onto brick walls. If there are no brick walls then they will have to be reinforced both from bottom (slab) and top (roof) and if it is not done properly you are in trouble.

    in cases where you have concrete first floor (instead of yellow tongue) you must have double brick down stair to put the concrete on top of it.
     
  16. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    there is what I thought - hebel is purely cladding as an alternative option. Nobody does a double brick anymore in building wise in Melbourne - it is just too costlyl. Well you can if you want - as a PPOR but as an IP why are you ?

    Concrete first floors are more like apartment style building. All chippies here build timber frame and it is designed by a structural engineer plans before it gets signed off as a building permit.

    For apartments yes concrete floors but not for houses - which is normally associated with housing commission houses in the past. Also viewed by certain demographics as for ppl who cannot afford a proper build.
     
  17. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    its not so much the case of "anymore", they usually never did many double bricks apart from the california bungalows and the random house (investment or PPOR). Believe it or not, they build more these days than they used to back in the day where most houses were either fibro or a single red brick.

    In any case, a brick wall forms a part of your frame in majority of buildings whereas hebel wont. In fact if you go on hebel forums you will see endless people complaining about crack in hebel material due to movement of home.

    In the case of our friend above where he/she lived in a hebel paneled house before hebel was even in Australia, that may be a difference matter altogether.
     
  18. melbournian

    melbournian Well-Known Member

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    Being too brick or too hebel Is not a good thing having a combination of both where some parts are brick and some parts are hebel are much better

    Hebel was never designed to be structural.

    If there movement in houses resulting in slab heave which is very common too in the western suburbs of melbourne whether it is brick, concrete, hebel you gonna see cracks either way - I have seen a lot of these - that has more to do with the structural design of waffle slabs rather than using a raft Slab and how reactive the soil is. The soil where I build 3 of these is very reactive in Pt cook but I haven't had issues or any cracks at all as i didn't use a waffle slab.

    I drive a lot through many many housing estates regularly though never really Noticed a double brick one recently. It is more costly to do from building perspective
     
  19. balwoges

    balwoges Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for not reading the previous posts thoroughly, I should make it clear I lived in a house made of Hebel bricks for over 19 years with no problems. Hebel panels - knew they were used in commercial buildings but not houses ... :oops:
     
  20. Tenex

    Tenex Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was structural and that was part of my point. The whole point I was making earlier is that the only seemingly advantageous point of hebel panels over brick is that hebel sheets are cheaper on material and cheaper on labour to install. Thats it.

    The problem is that the builder will pocket 90% of the savings, probably can turn projects over quickly and can tell f off with all the high maintenance brickies but you as the consumer wont see much of these savings.

    In the area where I live, 90% of buyers ask "what material is that" as one of their first questions. I know sellers who built and their product was on the market for months before they had to sell and settle for less than they would if they didn't cheap out during the build process.

    You have to think if a product has been in australia for 2 decades and the only one trying to do a hard sell on it is the builder that cannot get a few brickies to show up on the job, it's not going to be "better" than brick.