Happy International Men's Day!

Discussion in 'Living Room' started by Mombius Hibachi, 19th Nov, 2015.

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  1. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    I dont see it as 'outdated'? Feminism is enjoying a popularity resurgence. Lots of high profile women and men are talking, writing and singing about it. Its only outdated if you havent updated your notions about feminism. Politicians are still tinkering with policies around female participation in the workforce, childcare, maternity leave, paternity leave, Domestic violence. Still feels current to me.

    The broad definition is pretty simple; advocating for equality and womens issues. Of course individuals have their own priorities, interests and agendas within that but thats no different to using labels like baby boomer, tory, liberal, greenies, gen xer, lefty, hipster, mens rights, LGBT, christian, muslim, jew... Plenty of variation and disagreement within those groups.

    Its difficult to promote and identify with feminist issues though if the brand is viewed as outdated, scary, or uncool. But i think thats changing now, and those negative stereotypes are loosing their power as more and more people embrace the label.
     
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  2. bob shovel

    bob shovel Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully that's the case.
    The originally feminist movement was in the 60's and 70's which made good ground and got things happening. Then the nutbags took over in more recent times and hopefully it's changing back. That's why I think a new term is needed as it's no longer just about women as the title suggests. Perhaps a few branches and off shot groups required as there are so many groups with their own agenda's
     
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  3. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    Theres a name to describe how feminism has changed over time, they are called waves. So first wave feminists were campaigning for issues like the vote at the end of the 19th C. Second wave feminists in the 1960s wanted things like equal pay, and highlighted sexism. third wave feminists paid greater attention to women who weren't white, straight and wealthy but didnt agree on issues like sexuality.

    It feels like a fourth wave is happening now with an emphasis on the gender pay gap, domestic violence, body image, social media and the internet. I think there is more agreement on the impact of unlimited and extreme pornography than we had in the 1990s. On the otherhand, issues like CISgender, sexwork and women and religion are still divisive and debated amongst feminists.

    I think feminism will always have room for diverse opinions because it intersects with so many other groups and movements.
     
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  4. Xenia

    Xenia Well-Known Member

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    Everyone has a different definition of feminism that works for them, here is one to consider: one for the ladies

    I've put in another thread as to not hijack Mark's thread anymore than we already have. Looking forward to hearing your views ladies - and boys.
     
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  5. Jamie_

    Jamie_ Well-Known Member

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    In 2013, 1,885 males (16.4 per 100,000) and 637 females (5.5 per 100,000) died by suicide, a total of 2,522 deaths (10.9 per 100,000), which equates to an average of 6.9 deaths by suicide in Australia each day.

    Does anyone think it's a coincidence that three times as many males commit suicide? I wonder how many of these numbers are due to domestic violence from their relationships.
     
  6. geoffw

    geoffw Moderator Staff Member

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    Suicide Causes. Suicide.org.
     
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  7. Esel

    Esel Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean. Are you talking about those fathers who kill their kids and/or family members and then themselves? That is such a hard phenomenon to fathom. I suppose its very possible that killing the kids was their last act of violence and control.

    The only men/boys i am familiar with who have killed themselves were young and didnt have kids or even partners that im aware of. is suicide more common in men in relationships?
     
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  8. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, can't even have a mens thread these days ;)
     
  9. BigKahuna

    BigKahuna Well-Known Member

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    This is a snippet of 'The Mask You Live In'. It talks about the high rate of suicide amongst men/boys and their mental health issues, and how the three words 'be a man' have been a disservice to boys everywhere. '


    Society has a narrow definition of gender as it relates to boys and men. Gender is a social construct and it enforces upon us all a limited and unhelpful way of being in the world.
     
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  10. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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  11. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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    As a mother of 3 boys....I thank you for raising awareness. There is a propensity for depression on my husband's side of the family......and I have been as vigilant as I can be with my children so that I can get them help if needed.

    Depression, like many other illnesses, falls into a fairly wide spectrum........and can't simply be dismissed as someone having a bad day or experiencing a stressful situation.

    Both my father-in-law and sister-in-law are bipolar - and experience episodes of manic ups and downs. There is no happy pill they can take. It is part of them.

    MH, I understand why you feel saddened that a conversation as important as depression has been treated so carelessly.

    It is also unfortunately, there you decided to attack women in your second post.

    We're all in it together. We form part of the same race - humanity.
     
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  12. Azazel

    Azazel Well-Known Member

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    But but...
    What did women and men used to do before these social constructs?
     
  13. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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    Awesome TED talk. Loved the last one "my liberation as a man is tied to your liberation as a woman".

    I agree with the speaker. It is the role of us parents to ensure we don't lock our children into boxes.......or do everything in our power for that not to happen.

    I remember when my children were little, I would constantly have to tackle the stereotype nonsense they would pick in the school yard........and praise the Lord that my children have overcome that stage where they thought "girls are dumb" and now have a healthy mix of female and male friends.

    I hope that I am doing a good job of being a parent to my 3 boys.

    Though, I fairly sure I'm doing ok .....because my 14 year old isn't embarrassed to hug me and kiss me and say "I love you" even when I drop him off at school (in view of all his friends).
     
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  14. Angel

    Angel Well-Known Member

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    Just so you know about it here in OZ.... Our darling GP gave my hubby a referral to a Psych two months ago and the FIRST available appointment is still two weeks away. The fee is over $800 for the first consultation and over $300 for each one after that. Thank God we aren't relying on the public system.

    If I were to get a breast lump I'd be swoon over with free treats enough to make me puke. I know - everyone knows someone who has recently gone through breast cancer treatment and knows all about the treats given out. Pity there's nothing like that for people who suffer with anything else. I even get free tests every two years "just in case". Reminders are mailed out to me "regular as clockwork" with a smorgasbord of places I can attend for free whenever I like.

    Sorry, but when you have a household of males (and Me) who suffer mental health issues we are sick to death of being asked if I want to buy a bloody pink something or other for breast cancer.

    When my son was first diagnosed with Autism, I was informed that the suicide rate (this was in the 1990s) for adolescents with Autism is 50%.
     
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  15. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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    Angel - are those fees for a psychiatrist or a psychologist? If for a psychologist, ask for another referral.

    Any mental health professional worth their salt won't make you wait 3 months if there is a sense of urgency/need.
     
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  16. BigKahuna

    BigKahuna Well-Known Member

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    Ozzie, yes Porter is at the forefront of good men's activism. He's also widely respected for his efforts to end violence against women. When we become aware of how we are conditioned to impose gender roles on our children, we can be mindful. Boys can be just as intuitive, sensitive, empathic and caring as women, if we let them. They're then free to be whole human beings instead of caricatures of what society and culture expects of them. The abolition of gender would serve the interests of both women and women. Btw, sounds like you are doing a fantastic job of rearing your boys. Getting cuddles is pretty special--especially in public!

    Angel, sorry to hear about your husband. I've never heard of a psychiatrist being so expensive at the initial consultation. Did you ask why the price was so high?
     
    Last edited: 29th Nov, 2015
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  17. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Truly appreciate it. I am a huge fan of TED talks. However, I haven't heard of Porter previously. I will do more reading/research on him.

    His talk was both disturbing and confronting. Particularly, when he was recounting his first sexual/rape experience as a 12 year old .......and how he described his feelings and acknowledged that it was more about proving his manhood in front of male friends, rather than acknowledging that he knew the whole situation was messed up......and doing something about it. But he was just 12 years old.

    I would be interested in finding out how/why he made the connections and changed his ways.
     
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  18. Ozzie in Texas

    Ozzie in Texas Well-Known Member

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    I also agree with Porter about it being about cultural norms. I grew up in a very traditional Italian neighborhood surrounded by macho ideals.....including my parents discouraging me from continuing into higher education. I grew up at a time when the norm was for the majority of women to drop out of school in Year 10.....and the societal expectations of me was the same.

    I have always lived to my own drum beat.......but also suffered as a consequence. I remember many times when I was working as a senior executive in my 20s, I witnessed my relatives decrying the fact I wasn't married.....rather than acknowledging my success. Some of them even gossiped about my sexual orientation.........because obviously, if you're not married, something has to be "wrong".

    Just silly ignorance.

    In more recent years, my husband and I owned a DVD store in a predominately Muslim community, and I encountered the same sort of mentality from my youth. I remember there was one particular kid who drove me crazy.

    He was forever bullying and putting his sister down.....even in the company of his mother. One day, I decided to take action and told the little punk that his sister was more worthy than he was. Because at least, she tried to be nice to someone who was obviously undeserving.......and if he ever acted that way in my store again, I would kick him out. His mother just stood their silently throughout the whole exchange. The child just acted embarrassed because he had been called out.
     
    Last edited: 29th Nov, 2015
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