granny flat v's secondary dwelling? Shoalhaven region, NSW

Secondary dwelling v's dual occupancy v's granny flat??!!
I was looking at purchasing a property on South Coast NSW, land is 600 sqm with existing small house of 140sqm, wanting to put a 60sqm granny flat out the back, with separate side access.

But navigating Shoalhaven Council planning code and website for guidance is a real challenge.

I scrolled through Council DA approved listings online, granny flats they call them Secondary Dwellings, many are approved on sites greater than 700sqm, only one site was approved on land under 700sqm, a corner block. Which is further confusing because of Council code about sites over 700sqm can have Dual Occupancy, but sites under can't. Is a granny flat not dual occupancy?

Anybody familiar with this Council? or similar?

Hoping for some clarification and correction .

thanks PCers.

 

Any reason why you are not trying to get this approved via CDC?

There is plenty of information on the net and here is a fact sheet:

https://www.building-certifiers.net.au/pdf/2011 Fact Sheet on Granny Flats.pdf

Check if it falls under CDC and do it via a private certifier than going through the council.

 

The granny flat builder should be able to organize certification. Would be interested in which builders you are looking at or are you looking at building a kit home as owner builder

 

thank you Shahin - excellent fact sheet and brilliant piece of advice re: CDC - thnx

 

Babyboomer - yes, i am open to a kit home, or granny flat project home. But and it s a big but - can't find a granny flat design that appeals to me - they all look sooooo dated, from out of the 70's, colonial cottage style, with pokey little windows and no consideration of site - and i have searched kit/project threads from this forum, back to about 12 months.

I want something with modern lines, heaps of window one side, open to winter sun, but with wider shaded verandah during summer.
OK, perhaps i just have to look a bit harder...

or design, with drafter and use local builders

 

I personally get the design done myself and then tender it out to builders. It gives me more control to pick the right builder rather than being restricted to the builder than does the design.

Its great that you are thinking about the design and you have an initial brief to give to the architect.

 

yes Shahin - i am thinking same. I lived in a Meriton Apartment for 9 months and like their internal designs, good use of small space., so some great inspiration from their plans, all online.
I have a few mates that are builders - mention of a project home to them - is blasphemy and gets me banished.
And quoted costs appears same, $1800/m

 

@Property Guts secondary dwellings are not the same as dual occupancies in Shoalhaven Council. Secondary dwellings (granny flats) need to be under 60smq and will never be split from the original title whereas dual occupancies can be bigger but have much larger minimum lot sizes (plus a lot of other restrictions you are probably not aware of) and under certain circumstances can be subdivided. Agree on above comments but as @geoffw suggested a good GF designer will speed things up but it is really important you get your site selection correct BEFORE you buy or you will have headaches no architect can fix.

 

Thanks Matt - good tips

 

Hi Matt - can i get your thoughts on dual occ with Shoalhaven Council. I got a 600sqm block, with existing two level home. I have put in a DA for secondary dwelling, and this should be ok, council guys reckon.
But, back to the 2 level house. Upstairs has a bath & kitchem & 2 bedrooms. While downstairs I want to legally have a tenant and install a new kitchen and bathroom.

All will be let to tenants, not trying to subdivide title.

What's the best approach on the downstairs? Is that a dual occ?
What would the issues, when i go for another DA, or a variation on existing DA?
Soundproofing?
Separate power meters?

big thanks. pg

 

The main issue is that you are not going to get approval AFAIK. I don’t think you’re going to get 3 lots of rent from this one property. (but I like your attitude )

 

how does Ian Ugarte do it then?

 

Ask Ian Ugarte.

To answer your other questions, the issues are:
1. Fire proofing between floors
2. Separation of electricity - difficult to do after the fact in a double storey house
3. Noise transmission

 

ahh, thanks Alan. To maintain ceiling height of 2400, fireproofing may present a challenge. rest is do-able.

 

As Alan @Propertunity said 3 "dwellings" on one block using both dual occ and gf legislation is generally a stretch. I can't recall where in the Shoalhaven LEP it mentions it but I have read before a prohibition on dual occs PLUS gf's.

In any event the State SEPP (where you get a CDC approved for gf) does prohibit more than a "primary" and "secondary" dwelling at point 23 section g.
NSW Legislation
"Development standardswill not result in there being on the land, any dwelling other than the principal dwelling and the secondary dwelling, and"

So you want to prove that your upstairs and downstairs are one "principal" dwelling, at the same time as asking for approval to fire separate, add 2nd kitchen, 2nd bathroom etc, AND permission to rent to 2 parties....best of luck with it I expect you will hit some resistance.

The way to get 3 dwellings on a resi block in Shoalhaven is to buy R1 or R3 and do medium density strata development. It is possible down to around 900sqm if you get site selection right, far easier in the 1100-1400 sqm range, be careful lots of hidden site constraints you need to solve to make an approval go through.

 

Hi BuyersAgent, @BuyersAgent
Do you or anyone else know of any shoalhaven limitations with attached secondary dwellings "Granny flats"?
We are extending the existing house and looking to attach a granny flat to the rear of the garage with private access down the side of the house. Its under 60sqm and has a 60/60/60 fire rated wall between them in the plans. Someone told me that they thought there had to be a door connecting the primary and secondary dwellings but I cant find any info about that on the shoalhaven website.
Ive uploaded a few plans for reference...
Thanks!

 

Hi @Fiasco - Nothing about a door to my knowledge. That really defeats the purpose of full fire separation too so I would be surprised if that were the case. building onto the back is fine in many cases if fire separation box is ticked. You can bypass council and use a private certifier for NSW Affordable Housing Sepp compliant development if you prefer. Still costs $ but probably quicker. If you already have plans done there is a good private certifier in Shoalhaven Heads named Che - his website here Professional and Qualified Development Certifier Contact- My Certifier Pty Ltd or if you dont have plans yet let me know I know a good designer or two active in the area

 

As per @Propertunity 's original comments a GF with Main house is fine but if you have purchased something that was already subdivided by Dual Occupancy provisions or you are trying to turn 1 house into 3 it won't work they don't like double dipping.