Government's COVID response

The mantra follow the science…. Its a nonsense, clearly they do not get it right all the time. I feel this is what governments use to rationalise strategies which are flawed

Scientists Need to Admit What They Got Wrong About Covid

 

So what's the option?
I hear this "can't get to zero" and "lockdowns are silly/bad/not doing anything".

But I hardly hear anyone says what should be done?
How would they fix it?

And before you do or say "other countries did A, B, C", make sure when you offer a solution you think is better, to also answer to: are you willing to put the money where you month is?
Meaning, if you offer something like "let it rip" or "learn to live with it" - would do you be ok if as a result, you or someone from your close family (parent, partner, child) contract the virus and end up with long COVID or dead.

I found that there's a lot of "they got it wrong" with no other options.
Other countries tried and trying many different strategies and thing is certain: those who didn't lockdown and let case numbers to raise, had higher number of people end up 6 feet under and undisclosed numbers of people with either long COVID or long term side effects.

Australia has a pissy number of dead comparing.

 

I constantly hear you saying similar but it is really the responsible approach. Although in saying that, they fluffed around & waited too long in NSW this time around. Lots could have been done differently, but as a whole Australia is in a much better way than others countries. I do agree that the vaccinated amount needs urgent attention though. Although it's not perfect, it does give some protection.

Exactly! Look at other nations & see the huge numbers of dead. I don't want that.

 

Is what we are doing now really responsible??

Premier in Perth locked down Perth for 1 case and a regional centre. no logic whatsoever.

I am saying zero covid target is not realistic.

At some point we need to accept and live with this. Its not just about deaths.

By the way the vulnerable were not looked after by so called experts. Lots of mistakes made in the beginning and still happening. Nursing home fiasco, staff working with elderly/vulnerable not being vaccinated. Gobsmacking this has just became mandatory.


40% vacc in Singapore
This is a good read. What we should at, could work well here. The alternative will be ongoing lockdowns for years

Why the UK and Singapore have such different plans to 'live with COVID'

Singapore Shows the Way Out of Pandemic Policies for Asia

 

Its really easy to criticize the govt, premiers etc but the reality is there is no easy fix. We didn't get a road map of how to handle covid, no one did and its a changing situation with new strains. We also didn't know when purchasing the Astra Zeneca vaccine about the clotting issues etc so its really harsh to criticize the govt for stuffing that up. Had it been a great vaccine they would have been credited for getting it right.
Sydney is in trouble right now, we need to buy 6 months until everyone can get vaccinated and we really have no choice but to do something to limit the amount of infection in the meantime so our hospitals are not overrun and large numbers of people die. I don't even know what the answer is as 6 months is a long time to keep people from their jobs but I don't see any easy solutions here especially with the reluctance of people to even do their part and do the right thing and just stay home etc.
Just goes to show we all need to be prepared and have a buffer with our finances and not live week to week depending on a pay check. Get to a point where you have enough funds that you can be ok even if you had a year off work/ business etc.

The way out of this mess is getting everyone vaccinated. I hope we get a high number of people taking up the vaccine.That's the only way we can return to normal life. I have done my bit (got vaccinated) but I do understand the hesitancy with astra zeneca with those wanting to wait for the pfizer vaccine

 

Its harsh to blame the government, but its ok to blame the people instead??? See this often on this forum

So you are ok with zero covid?

The problem is cat it out of the bag, people are not interested in taking AZ, the alternative is pfizer. Do we have enough of this.

So we are in quite a pickle

this is a very interesting article. Canada was in similar scenario. Got their act together, . Three reasons…..People happy to get the jab, efficient distribution, abundant supply

Canada opening 60% vacc

Canada moves to open its borders while Australians remain in Covid-19 lockdown | Daily Mail Online

 

I'm not saying there hasn't been mistakes. There's been mistakes a plenty. But going hard and fast as soon as cases arise means it keeps people healthy and alive, and if this was done in NSW we wouldn't be in this current mess. Do it as soon as there's cases & it's quick, and everyone can move on.

 

I am not blaming anyone (Government or people), it is what it is. We all need to do our part to protect ourselves, our families and the community. I think a lot of people are willing to get the jab (pfizer), we just don't have enough of them right now, that's the problem and that's the way out of lockdowns but without enough vaccines right now we are stuck. Really no easy answers here. People are upset, angry etc so they look for someone to blame. Govt and premiers are an easy target. The are damned if they do and damned if they don't lockdown. I believe it was those short , quick lock downs that saved states like WA and QLD. Better to be locked down for 3 - 7 days than 6 months.

 

Lockdowns are not a choice. Majority of people are doing what they have to do to stay safe

You hit the nail on the head, not enough pfizer.

At this late stage of the game….who is responsible for this? Can we also use other drugs moderna?

The Premier of NSW is asking other states to give their allocation of pfizer to NSW

Does this sound organised?

yes, agree it is what it is but I sincerely hope our leaders can sort this out. Ongoing lockdowns is going to sink us

 

Who is responsible for this? Well the whole world is trying to get their hands on pfizer they can't produce it fast enough to supply it to everyone. There are other countries trying to secure more supply just like we are. I do believe they have ordered Moderna as well. Thing is we had an abundant supply of vaccines (astra zeneca) and we were going to be producing 1 million doses a week of it in Melbourne, problem is we didn't know when those decisions were made that people would start dying from blood clots and the public would be reluctant to get the jab in fear of being that 1 in a million that dies from it. Who is at fault, well I don't know. You don't know what you don't know and we didn't have all the answers at the time the vaccines were ordered and decisions made of which to buy and how many of each so in my mind blaming the govt is a bit harsh. If anything the decisions that they have made have kept most of us safer than in many countries to date.

NSW premier asking other states for vaccines, well that's a strategy they are considering to navigate the worsening situation,. Does that sound organised well we simply don't have enough, what do you do? You can change direction to try and handle the deteriorating numbers in sydney by pulling vaccines from elsewhere if the states are agreeable.

 

UK and Singapore have both reintroduced lock downs ( to varying degrees) in recent days. The articles you posted to support their approaches are outdated.

Singapore COVID: Semi-lockdown returns amid case surge across nation

https://twitter.com/sporeMOH/status/1418262909793148938?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

https://twitter.com/sporeMOH/status/1418633909361799176?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet



UK Covid live news: more than 800,000 people had coronavirus last week, ONS estimates – as it happened



The problem here is three fold;

1. Morrison and Hunt went all in for AZ ( Plan A) and didn't put a Plan B or C in place, in time. Plans B and C were eventually arranged but 18 months late . It's indefensible. Full stop.

2. When the clotting issue with AZ became apparent, Morrison and Hunt allowed the urban myth to take hold, even though the rate of clotting is well , well , well below the rate of clotting for many other widely used products available and used in Australia today . ie 4 -6 people per million, which would mean that statistically speaking , between 100 - 150 people might be at risk of clotting if AZ was administered to the Australian population of @25Million. They did it because it suited their political purposes of "fortress Australia" and it is equally indefensible. Full Stop. The result has been resistance in the community for AZ which has led to a far lower rate of vaccination than would otherwise have been achievable - even without Pfizer ( Plan B ) or Moderna ( Plan C) .... and because they didn't organise enough B or C, the people who are now resisting AZ while they await Pfizer or Moderna are unvaccinated, making the impact of Delta more dangerous, leading to these lock downs. They could have run aggressive pro AZ campaigns all of last year and all of this year, arguing for the statistical unlikelihood of clotting. That could have resulted in a far higher uptake of AZ, and we would have a far higher % of people vaccinated right now , meaning the Pfizer and Moderna delays were less of an issue

3. States went to them repeatedly requesting assistance to build proper quarantine facilities. They warned them the hotel quarantine was not fit for purpose and that combined with the extrenely low vaccination rates and community resistance to AZ, there was a risk that " winter is coming"... exactly we we find ourselves now. They received a tin ear response.... Dutton lampooned the idea repeatedly. Now they realise their folly.... but they are a day late and a dollar short. Again.

Better quarantine means fewer leaks.
Better rates of vaccination means the fewer leaks create fewer risks
All of which removes the need for these rolling lockdowns that have become the defacto response to each spike.

I dont care what side of politics you prefer. There is just no defending this particular leadership groups handling of things. Right from Day 1 it has been the opposition and the state premiers who have dragged Morrison and co to act. The border closures, Jobseeker, Jobkeeper... all of it forced upon /devised/ designed by others , rather than created by them. The PM would have happily had us at the footy for weeks more , but for the actions others took to force him to act. Bottom line here is unambiguous; they have been a day late and a dollar short at every. single. turn. And the PM in particular has plenty of form for this kind of rudderless incompetence and blame shifting; during the bushfires, and more recently with other scandals around some of his ministers and MP's and around sexual assault issues. What this should have demonstrated to everyone by now is that he is just not fit for purpose. Utterly useless. Completely lacking in acumen or empathy.

 

Ummm..... I'd take the risk saying it is....
I dunno.... In my books - you cannot fix dead.
You can fix everything else tho.

Totally nail and totally hit - there's not enough and we need to make sure that until we manage to get to a high enough vaxxed - we don't let this virus go crazy within our community.

I'm not interested in finger pointing. It's not helping anyone grasping for air in the ICU.
All I care about now is to make sure as little people end up in ICU.

History and the people will judge the "governments" and the way they handled this.

Lockdowns will not sick us! It's not great. It's not fun. It creates damage.
But guess what..... Global pandemic does that.

 

That's pretty damning if true. I thought it was just general ineptitude. Excellent post btw.

 

Things we stuffed up:
1. Vaccine messaging hasn’t been great and there hasn’t been enough attention put towards convincing the public to get vaccinated.
2. Proper quarantine facilities should have been built last year, and this would have helped get the backlog of people back here from overseas.
3. The NSW state government went too late and too soft with the latest lockdown, despite knowing what happened in Vic last year when it was left too late.

The vaccine procurement hasn’t been perfect but I think it was a sound strategy to back the vaccine that we could produce locally. It would have been a risky move relying on imported vaccines due to lack of control - we saw this earlier when the EU stopped shipments to Australia.

Overall I think the governments (state and federal) have done well. Things are not perfect but we are in a much better position than 99% of the rest of the world.

 

Had we opened up by now, he would have to deal with the reality of

massive debt
housing issues/affordability
climate change
and any number of other political issues which have largely been sidelined for 18 months or so...

Absolutely suited them to keep people scared and not talking about other things, and to keep the coverage on Govt and away from the Opposition.

 

Nicely put @wylie. I'd include in the shame file those who should have conveyed the message in simple but effective terms. The Government's delivery of recommendations from the advisory committee appointed has been messy and incoherent I feel.

In my opinion it wasn't the advisory committee's function to deliver that message but there has been a tendency to view the advice and the committee as obdurate and now the current situation is its fault. A large amount of inappropriate finger pointing its way has occurred.

It takes minimal effort to find the composition of the committee. Even a modicum of thought about who is on the committee, their field of expertise and the institutions with which they are associated would indicate it is highly improbable they are people who refuse to change their minds. They would be throwing their professional ethics in the trash can.

And it equally easy to discover what the committee has been advising all along. It's public information. It has been consistent. Recommend AZ for certain categories of age groups, Pfizer for others based on risk. It'll be OK in the context of rate of infections in the community applying at a given period.

And the advice was altered yesterday. Understandable. The Regimental Sargeant Major has called his colleagues to a meeting, walked in and announced "Gentlemen, we have a situation here."

Those who should have conveyed the message have been inept.

 

Summed up numerous threads in one post!

Well done....you're on the money.