George Pell has been aquitted

Peter, you always seem like a super kind and smart guy whenever you chime in on here, and I'm sure you are, so I'm reluctant to single this out. But suggesting parents are to blame for institutional child raping by essentially the most powerful organization in history, and institution that owns their spiritual lives, is a harmful attitude IMO.

I'm glad your folks kept you out of harms way, plenty weren't so lucky, and I wonder if everyone celebrating Pell's technical victory through legal brute force, would be so happy he is getting off if it was their child alleging they'd been molested by him.

 

It's not cheap to make these things go away.

 

Yeah, I told my parents (strict Catholics) and they dismissed it with “priests are men of God and wouldn’t do things like that”.

How wrong they were.

 

Sadly true - one of the most famous residents of my former suburb described in his autobiography how he'd been abused by the local anglican priest and told his parents, only to be given a beating for saying such a wicked thing.

 

OMG.

I got off lightly.

 

I've yet to find out what these massive tax breaks are? Unlike charitable donations, church members like me don't get tax relief on our giving. Put my church in business terms and last year it was income (mostly member giving): $4.3m; staff costs: $3m; rent and other occupancy costs (we don't own any real estate): $1m; surplus c/f: $300K. So $100K tax at most?

 

I do agree with you, my comments do come across as victim blaming which isn't fair. I don't believe that the parents are to blame, but I would hope that some have reflected on their decisions somewhat.

I don't think I directly knew any of the victims or their families, but I do know a few ultra strict Catholics. Even today their attitude is to not question the church and by extension the priests. Generally they're fairly decent people, but some can be a bit extreme in certain attitudes. Their own faith could manipulated to some degree by the institution and its representatives.

As to my own beliefs, I still consider myself Christian (not practising). I don't know if there is a God or not, but I like to think I have faith and try to conduct myself with appropriate values.

I think that the church is run by men, not deities. All people are flawed, some more than others. The Church also puts unrealistic expectations of chastity on priests likely only serves to amplify some flaws. I do think the institution has a lot to answer for and needs to change.

As to Cardinal Pell, he's likely guilty of something but that's for others to investigate and determine. I have had other experiences with the legal system that makes it clear how difficult it is to prove guilt in this type of case, but I still have faith in the legal system and I still think the correct conclusion has been found (in this specific case).

 

They are wrong but they have a point there though. Just because there are corrupt police out there for example, doesn't mean all police are corrupt and by definition or nature, you'd expect Police and Priests to be good people. There are a ton of good priests but not a majority and this is anecdotal of course.

The issue is that Church has been infiltrated with pedos and self serving opportunistic individuals, i think this is the crux of the matter. The church as an organisation is the problem and the ones who can fix this problem are the constituents of this organisation.

 

I don't think I'd say the Church is inundated by such people, but living in relative isolation, unable to have any romantic connections, unable to marry, I think this is unnatural. For some people that might otherwise be quite decent, it may bring out the worst in them.

The Church as an organisation built on good intentions, but the some of the restrictions it places on its members are pretty messed up.

 

Stamp duty and land tax exemptions and income tax exemptions.

 

I know that various religious organisations hold massive amounts of land and do have substantial income streams, but if they had to pay all the various taxes, they'd likely be broke very quickly or at least run very differently.

Most are legitimately 'not for profit' organisations and they do provide a very wide range of community services. What would be the cost of these services if they were provided by the government or private organisations?

 

Google the mokumentary.
"Louis CK learns about the Catholic Church"

 

We rent a cinema and our church office. Income Tax? 30% of our 'profit', say $100K as above. The cinema and office owners are paying tax on the rent we pay. Stamp Duty? Churches hardly ever buy and sell. As to Land Tax, what (say) is St Patrick's Cathedral Melbourne really worth? The Age carried a ridiculous story saying it was worth $300m+. This is probably what it's insured for (rebuilding cost) but its real worth is minimal: you can't redevelop it; heritage would probably stop you making any significant alterations to the inside or outside. All you could do with it IMO would be rent it out for weddings, say 2x$5K a week which wouldn't cover insurance, maintenance and other costs. In economic terms it's as good as worthless.
What strikes me as bizarre is that my donations to my church don't get tax relief (they would in UK) but if I gave the money to the Labor party I would get it.

 

Your Church should probably get some tax advice.

 

I am reminded of Blackstone's ratio.

 

That is exactly what happens.

The institution often makes it worse though, such as in the case of strongly hierarchical and traditional organisations like the Church, in ignoring the views/concerns of junior or outside voices, absolute deference to authority, resistance to change and having protection of the institution as the priority above all else.

Mandatory celibacy makes it even worse, in that men with "normal" sexual attractions are discouraged from joining, and those that do become priests are tempted to satisfy their desires on the powerless children they have direct and unrestricted access to. The Catholic Church was (or maybe still is?) a perfect storm for this behaviour.