Freedom Property Investors

Thanks for the info James. I will definitely listen to that. Yes freedom property is too good to be true. I will definitely post more and tell them about my experience.

 

Hi all,
Just thought to give you an update. I have called and emailed so many people and at the end the mortgage broker answered my call and he said he will pass my message to the strategist. I’m so thankful to him. He was being really nice but so upset that I couldn’t reach out to anyone else in the company to request the refund.
Finally I sent an email to the strategist saying about bad reviews, etc. then he called me and said he didn’t see my emails because of the subject. But the finance broker said he passed my messages to him so I knew he wasn’t being truthful about not receiving my emails and however he refunded the money. So I had to kind a threaten them saying that I might put bad reviews, etc. So not really happy and he kept asking so you don’t want to be financially free in 10 years. . Anyway I received my membership fee back and I’m glad that I didn’t go ahead with them

 

Yeah just tell them you've had a change of heart and now wish to work till age 65 min.

 

Haha yes that’s right .

 

I've seen some of the deals and some are in good locations but all expensive and not under market value. I recall a townhouse price and you could buy a good free standing home in same or next suburb.

 

This is a good point, Financial and legal advice should be independent and as such part of your due diligence , it cant be if the solicitor is working for the developer, agent or someone who stands to make a commission from the sale.

 

What do you think of their last email? Looks like paranoia to me. Will paste it below:
=======================

One of the things people hate most about getting rich is how the people they’re close to start acting differently.

(Yes, there really IS a downside to having money. Who’d have thought it, right?)

They’re going to gossip behind your back.

They’ll start making snide comments about ‘how about you leave a few houses for the rest of us’.

And they’ll probably start seeing less and less of you. Maybe you’ll accidentally find the rest of your friends at a BBQ which you strangely didn’t get invited to.

Why does it happen?

Maybe it’s jealousy, pure and simple.

But I think there’s more to it than that.

It’s because there’s safety in numbers.

The herd provides protection, and they can hide their laziness and small-minded thinking in it.

But as soon as someone ventures out and suddenly succeeds, it makes the rest of the crowd look bad.

You can’t have that, right?

You can’t have one of the clan driving a Mercedes when everyone else drives 15 year old bombs.

And so begins a desperate struggle to bring the naughty puppy back in line.

After all, the last thing the pack wants is YOU making them look bad, right?

Of course, they can’t physically restrain you like a pack of animals could.

Truth be told, there’s not much they can do about you being a rebel at all.

The only weapon they have is to make you feel bad, or even guilty.

But you and I know it’s not enough to stop you.

Once you’re free, there’s no way they’re going to drag you back.

So, if this is happening to you, take heart.

You’re not alone.

And it’s not you.

It’s them.

- Scott

 

Their advertising is "How our property members never have to pay full price". But when I spoke to their consultant after signing up, he has admitted that there likely aren't any deals available at the moment under market price at the moment. This is consistent with many of the posts above. Their strategy is to load you up to maximum borrowing. Then when the interest rates rise in a couple of years, well good luck to us.

 

Hi everyone,

Has anyone had an issue with their membership fee refund within the 60 day trial?

Their office line goes to voicemail and I'm not getting through to their membership team or the strategist to share the membership team contact details.

To say I'm concerned is to say nothing.
I also have major delays with them refunding my booking fees.

 

Did you pay by credit card? You might be able raise a dispute through them.

 

This is actually true for some people. It's like when your fat friends tell you you're looking "too skinny" after losing a butt load of weight - it makes them uncomfortable.

In a perfect world, we'd feel happy about others success, but generally, we prefer to cut them down to make ourselves feel better.

 

My two cents here coming from a Former Employee.

Don't do it.

Freedom is by no means a bad company. In fact, they genuinely are good people with good intentions. I.e. they're not out there trying to flog you **** deals intentionally. But... when it comes down to it, they're the ones winning, and handsomely too. To be clear, you may very well get a good deal and get some great results! I am by no means saying that. What I am saying is that they will always win.

I worked there earlier this year and got a good understanding of how the business operates and how it makes its money. Let's just say, I didn't stick around too long.

- Membership fees: Thousands of dollars upfront which is for stuff that most companies would offer free of charge anyway. This fee covers a lot of their marketing, operational and customer acquisition costs. Don't be fooled by the "bulk purchasing power"- There's very little value in this. They are pretty good with their refunds though. They will not try and keep your membership if they feel they can't help you, or even if you choose to change your mind.

- Brokerage Commissions: This is done in-house, though there's a lot of brokers they partner with and split the commissions with them. This brings in an extra 3-4k upfront for each loan, minus the commissions paid, (based on an average 500k mortgage) plus trailing comms.

- Selling off the plan properties: This is the cash-cow. 6-10% commissions on the purchase price. This is why I left. 10% commissions on certain properties... Not sure how anyone can morally accept this. Most properties pay them between 25k-35k comms (6%-8% on average, but it is also based on how well they negotiate with the builder) and 10% commission is a bit of an anomaly for a dual-key package, but it speaks to character.

Most people will end up buying multiple properties through them. That's an additional ~ 35k in commissions each time, minimum, on a 500k purchase, whereas a traditional real estate agent would get about 10k (2%) for selling the same priced property.

Builders don't sell properties through Freedom (and others) because they don't want to pay for a sales and marketing team, as they want you to believe. They do it because they know the prices can be inflated (more profit) AND the likes of Freedom has the ability to sell an entire apartment complex for them within the span of weeks, allowing to cashout and move on to the next project.

If you're thinking 35k comms isn't bad, consider the fact that the developer is also picking up their slice too. 20% margins for building the apartment. So, realistically, 26-28% of the price you pay is going towards profit margins and commissions. Add 3-4% stamp duty to that figure and you've got some ground to makeup!

If you want to do yourself a favor -- look at comparable sales in the suburbs being suggested to you (assuming you are a member already)

One of the guys I worked with there had decided to buy a new apartment in Melb from Freedom. He lives in Sydney but decided to take advantage of the first home buyers grant, stamp duty waiver, and a developer incentive (20k rebate if i recall correctly). He bought off the plan for 550k. When he shared info of this purchase with me, I pointed out to him that I had found in the exact same suburb (less than 800m away), a similarly sized apartment (approx 20 years old) that was priced at 380k!... He paid 550k. Rental return on the new place will be slightly higher but so too would the body corporate fees!

To be clear, I am not here to trash Freedom. They have a place in the industry and can certainly help a lot of people.

Freedom property can still be greatly useful for a lot of people, especially if;
1. you don't have time to research and source your own properties
2. unaware of how to finance investment properties (reach out to any broker in this forum for help in this case)
3. Don't have the confidence to go it alone

If you fall into either category 1 or 3, consider working with a buyer's agent (yes, you'll have to pay them an upfront fee).

But before you do that, find a mortgage broker to see what you can do. Plenty of brokers will jump at the opportunity to help you FOR FREE.

My last point which I want to wrap up with. Two rules for investing (not the only two!)

1. Buy average Houses for average People (I.e. no luxury houses/apartments, and no houses that attract unemployed/extremely low socioeconomic status)
2. Houses Over Apartments; The value is in the land! And no strata/body corp

Hope this helps!

 

I'd be interesting in having a look at that. No cherry-picking please. Specific addresses would be best, if not possible, the following will do:

• Year and month of purchase/contract date
• Suburb name and post code
• Property type (house or unit)

I can post an independent review of past growth.

 

I checked the past performance of those 3 suburbs during Sydney's most recent boom from Jan 2013 to Jan 2018. Only Kellyville outperformed the Sydney median. But the start and end dates are quite influential. Any more detail on those?

 

Can you share the suburbs and dates please?

 

What areas? Any suburb names and dates?

 

Can you show us those facts which show the opposite?

Here's some analysis I performed over literally millions of sales in QLD by age...


There's a clear trend towards newer properties under-performing.

You can read the full report here.

 

I really appreciate your detailed analysis of their business.

However, I have an issue with this statement as you said that they takes a lot of commission PLUS selling you off-the-plan properties knowing full-well that OTP is one of the worst investment class one can make.

To me, that's spruikers who act in BAD intentions who do not have the best interest of their clients at heart, only what is in their own best interest.

Another thing that ticks me off is when I put a link to this reviewing thread on one of their FB ads and asked them to respond to people's legitimate queries in this thread, instead of fronting up and answer the questions that any upstanding business would not be scared to do, they simply either deleted my reply or block me from replying to their FB ad.

To me, these are all red flags of a dishonest business.

 

Are there any forum members who know when and where Freedom picked suburbs for their clients? I would love to do some past performance analysis. Any dated location info at all?

 

This thread reminds me of the soundtrack to the motion picture, "Team America". Off topic, but lightens the mood.

Freedom isn't Free

Warning, explicit lyrics.

If anyone has some past picks of hot-spots by Freedom Property, I can analyse and share past performance calculations with the forum.