First subdivision

What do you do when a subdivision doesn't work out?

I can't even get any demo guy to quote, everyone is flat out.

Everyone is looking to each other to interpret what survey strata is supposed to mean. Watercorp points to plumber, plumber points to watercorp. Civil engineer points to council, then second guesses what council says (which, of course, is not in writing). Everyone keeps talking about "common property" when there is none.

Kids are on holidays and go feral whenever mum is on the phone. I'm so over real estate right now.

Conditions need to be cleared by 2024. I feel like things will get worse before they get better. So what does one do - fire sale as is? Pretend preliminary approval never happened to appeal to more buyers? Or kick the can down the road and hope for a miracle

 

Welcome to the world of development. Delays and issues are inevitable. Who is leading you on this ? Usually a surveyor / town planner. Rushing to demo is a rookie move. It will mean GST occurs on resale where if you sell with an approved DA and approved plans etc then GST may not apply if the site is sold with a residential dwelling on it.

You probably wont find any trades who demo who are free at this time. Its "holiday" time. Anyone who is free will charge for the convenience and lack of competition.
Sit on hands until after Australia Day ?

 

Sometimes it comes down to the Council you are dealing with.
Cockburn and Melville Council a walk in the park

Can get pay a professional to help u get this over the line?
If you offload will you still make a profit??

 

It may be a case of the blind leading the blind Only half joking. No, seriously, I think by choosing a retain and build as my first I have unwittingly made things difficult for myself. There does appear to be a 'usual' way of doing things - clear everything and redo on a clean slate. This one is different and not everyone likes different (a tree! shock, horror a tree!)

I am B&H so don't expect GST to become a topic. Both subdivisions are retain and build and have been PPORs at some point.

If you have any recommendations, I'd love a PM please

Profit...to be honest, I'm struggeling to keep the business cases up to date between 'as is' or subdivide. The markets are moving and turnover for land is very slow right now vs 12 months ago.

If I was to offload now, I think I'd pretend preliminary subdivision approval never happened? I'd likely get my money back.

Would I regret it in 2024, in an iron ore at @$65 scenario?
In 2030, in a Perth population @3million scenario?
Probably.

 

As a quick update:

wins: I found a concreter who is just starting out on his own and installed the crossover and a new double car bay for $55 a sqm and with minimal wait. He even agreed to come water for a week as we have escaped Fortress WA for good. The location of this block is helping get tradies as they live nearby and fit me in on weekends etc.

Downside is I now need to get the City of Swan planner to write a letter to the WAPC asking them to remove the condition of 1.5m wings. The crossover abuts a mountable verge, so no wings are needed as far as the city goes.

I hope that goes ok. Always awkward telling an regulatory authority they made a mistake.

In other news still having a major struggle with the driveway, retaining and trees in the back. As far as I'm concerned everything is there - retained, driveway, leave me alone. Rake the building envelope and bugger off.

Yet I keep getting plans for everything new. Not as in 'we inspected and found issue with' but as in 'can't be bothered here's a standard drawing, that's $9,000 thanks".

To redo it all would be $30k I think. At least.

 

That's some good news on the concretor.

Finger crossed for you with the wings. I find councils are more flexible for things like this but can still be overuled by WAPC.

That struggle to do with demolition companies to clear the rear? Are they worried their machinery and trucks are so heavy they will break the current driveway perhaps?

 

I'm sure that is a factor. It would be understandable.

I expect the same problem to reoccur at building stage though, what if demolish the old driveway now, lay a new driveway, then the builder damages that new driveway?

Honestly, the old system of paying a bond was much better.

I will have to just keep chugging along, talking to people.

In your experience, do the engineer plans (where in my case their standard design would redo the entire driveway in brick) for drainage matter much? Or are drainers inclined to put a soakwell where it makes sense and then sign off anyway?

Did I confuse myself by doing everything 'by the book'?

 

I locked myself out of my account, hence the change in username.

Would love to get some input from "the hive" as to service trenches in survey strata. I need to get power, water, gas and telco/nbn to the back lot and a sewer to the front lot.

My understanding is the usual way to do it would be along driveways. Makes sense. Only in this case there is a retaining wall hard up one side and three established trees on the other side of the back driveway.

Hence it seems to me the other boundary, highlighted yellow, is the better option.

The only downside I can see is if in years to come someone wants to build hard up against that boundary they couldn't.

Am I making a huge rookie mistake by putting services in the area shaded yellow, into a 1m corridor along the boundary?

Also, how does one coordinate the four services, can I have one trench dug and several contractors use it? Or lay some kind of pipe for future use?

Many thanks in advance.

 

Would love to know who your concreter was (feel free to pm me if you dont want to publicly list it)

All 4 services are independent of each other and will be using different trench.

Sewer - from the rear to your proposed house and the existing. You might want to reroute it via the yellow line (part of it, that way theres no confusion on location of services).

No way water meter for the rear lot can be fitted in that 6.5m access? in your example both water meters would be on front lots front yard. Ive done similar before but it was due to no other option.

The dome is already installed there? so guessing best place to run the wiring the rear

Has your surveyor provided feedback? If you need assistance I know a surveyor that also does project management and from what they have advised as their standard project management fees for a 2 lot subdivision was quiet reasonable

 

Very happy to PM . Just note he was a new guy just starting out and may have increased his prices since. Very easy to deal with though and a good result.

Thanks for the info re services. That makes sense.

And thanks for the info re surveyor. I feel part of my issue was the craziness of the market in 2021. As things are coming off the boil, I am finally getting a bit of traction with people.

 

A few crises have been averted, possibly.

The large engineering company that charged me $8k and delivered completely inapplicable standard plans in Nov 2021 actually returned my call and appeared to listen for long enough to understand they screwed up.

I have a smaller engineering firm lined up as plan B but would prefer to not write off what I have already paid.

Also the City of Stirling has brought out an info sheet on what WAPC conditions mean and spoiler alert it is not what I thought they mean.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2BRv_7I_BUc2fg8YB7V4Hs

Now, my block is in the City of Swan so I will need to go have another friendly chat with *my* people but this time around I will know which further questions to ask. Like, for example: "where it says 'construct and drain a driveway', do you mean 'grade a gravel path'"? Yeah? Sure. Intuitive (not! lol)

 

@gach2 i don't seem to be able to PM you - you might have to PM me pls

 

In other news:

A block down the road has sold for a pretty stellar price with the subdivision opportunity prominent in the ad.

It appears to me it sold for the price of the finished products combined and allowed for zero cost / profit on subdivision. I hope they have a really really long time horizon.

Other news part 2: Second subdivision, elsewhere, received conditional approval, good til 2025. Should probably finish SD1 first... SD2 seems much more straight forward though.

 

Inboxed

Might be a better market for larger lots in the area.
Congrats on number 2. 2 will always be easier and hopefully after 1 it will feel like doing it in your sleep

 

Well the sewer is at the back so is already going to the front house? Most likely the pipe is running through the middle of the block. You can leave it as is but many would keep the position and put in new pipe so that it lasts ages and then just construct over it. Construction sewer (if that's such a thing) can be underneath. The new block can tee off the current connection at the rear too.

With Power it will depend on where the dome is and if there will be a new dome where western power will approve it being put. You may also need room for a site main board which will need to be in common property.

Don't quote me but I think you just need services 'available' not complete them up to the block. Most trenching to run services in are done when someone is constructing at the rear. If it's you then you could do it now but builders are experts at which services can share trenches (2 services at different depths) etc

Gas is not required as part of subdivision works and can be trenched in at construction

Do you know where the services for the front house run in from? Generally you just leave them alone and then it would be fine to run up the new stuff on the driveway for the rear block as it doesn't need to cross the retaining wall. Be aware though that driveways is the common location for soak wells if the site is tight - more things for a small triplex block and probably not as much an issue for you on a large duplex lot.

 

Thank you for taking the time to comment.

I admit, reading this was a bit of a facepalm moment. Of course it is.

What seems to have happened is that everyone was flat out in mid 2021 so I was getting no response or the "it's all too hard" from people. And, being a newbie, it planted doubt in my mind and confused me.

Well, happy to report I now have responses from engineers and demo people and even quotes. When I point out some of the 'problems' previous trades have raised, I now get the "ah yeah, we do that all the time".

Onwards and upwards.

Lucky I got this for free and lucky my holding costs are nil.

 

Mine is bigger, hehe

 

Good to hear you're getting some positive traction now.

 

Subdivision 1

Demo - tick
WP & Site switch board - tick
retaining - tick
Soakwell - tick
crossover - lined up

Plumber - gah! can't find anyone.

Might have titles by Christmas? One can dream. A little nervous about interest rates and asset valuations. I am looking to hold but was hoping to refinance and keep the cash in the kitty / offset for when ready to build.

In other news: I parted ways with the surveyor. Too much babysitting needed.

Lessons learned from my first subdivision so far:
1. It is all about connections and relationships. Contact the right 'trades' and things just humm along. Approach the wrong people and there will be endless runaround.
2. Cashflow is king. Once feasibility is done, forget capital gains and manage cash flow. like a hawk.
3. Talk in person as much as possible. 5 mins talking to the right person can save months of work.
4. Don't over-engineer. The goal is titles, not a gold star for over achieving.

Subdivision 2

Building permit for partial carpark demo - draftie engaged.
Council agreed to remove the verge tree - yay yay yay.

I feel like these were the two iffy ones - everything else is just 'going through the motions', hopefully.

 

Maybe WV Plumbing or Casotti Plumbers. I have a another plumbers name in my head but I can't remember it. If it comes to me I'll add it.